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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Folks,
I have a 04 Brutale and it looks like I have the common problem with the fuse box. No juice at the fuel pump/coil fuse. Big brown bubble on the back of the box under the pretty blue stuff.

1) Where do I buy one ( ouch )
2) anyone powered the fuel pump/coils with a external relay?

Thanks
Bill
 

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ebay uk
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I am new at MV but from I hear parts are scarce here and HD is supposed to be taking over. Let me see if I get any suggestions for this side of the pond and if not, will have to order something over there.
 

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I don't have a wiring diagram in front of me at present but off the top of my head I'd say it shouldn't be too difficult to fit an external pump/coil relay.

If memory serves correctly, the switched power feed that supplies the fuse box's internal pump relay loops out and then back into the fuse box (pins 6 and 7 from memory but don't quote me on it). This loopback could be used to supply a live feed for an external relay, the internal relay coil is also feed with a permanent live so this loopback could also be used to supply a positive feed to the external relay's trigger coil.The actual relay coil trigger comes from the ECU as an open collector output so that's just a simple case of working out which cable triggers the relay and connecting it to the external relay.

The only thing you won't be able to do easily is make use of the existing pump fuse so perhaps fitting a relay holder with integral fuse holder would be best suited.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks Hartley, I have a diagram but is too small to read ( came with the manual) I wlll pick up a magnifying glass this evening and see if I can make sense out of it.

Lots of good info on this forum. Hope I don't need to all of it keep this bike running :))

Bill
 

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You are lucky, Bill. Hartley Hare is the resident electrical guru. Follow his instructions and you won't go wrong.

CAG
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Family emergency,
Project is on hold but will be asking you folks for advise when things stabilize here.

Thanks
Bill
 

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Kind words CAG, thanks.

Blast54, when you get the time to get back round to it, I have attached the wiring diagram in .pdf format. It's not as clear as perhaps it could be but should be easier to read than the hard copy that comes with the owners manual. The last page of the .pdf file also contains a block diagram of the fuse box internals and details the individual pin numbers.

Looking at the wiring and block diagrams it should be relativly straight forward to fit an external relay for the pump and coils.
 

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Gee...you think you can come up with one of those for the Euro3 910s or F4s?????
 

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I've posted the wiring diagram for the F4 1000R previously in this post and posted the F4 1000S wiring diagram in the post immediately below it (the F4 1000R diagram is in Italian but is good enough to troubleshoot most issues even if you don't know much or any Italian). I have the F4 750 wiring diagram kicking around some where and *I think* I might also have a wiring diagram for the Brutale 910S, if I come across them I'll post them here.
 

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Thanks for reminding me of that thread....I'll bet the F4-1000R schematic is similar to Euro3 910s. It's the insides of service power unit (relay-fuse box aka CDI) that I am really curios about. Looks like that is shown in the 1000r schematic.
Thanks again.
 

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I'ts been a while since I've had to prod the electrics of an F4 1000R so I could be wrong, but from memory, the fuse and relay setup is similar to all previous F4s in that the fuse box is literally just that, it contains only the fuses all switching is still handled by external standard mechanical relays.

To me it looks like the F4 1000R wiring diagram lists/details the various relays as individual components and doesn't seem to suggest that they are part of a larger assembly or component. As far as I'm aware, to date, only the Brutale range utilise a fuse box with integral relay switching.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hartley, thank you for the schematic, it is much better than the one I have but I still don't understand it well enough to identify what I have to do to get power to the coils/fuel pump.
Will probably wait unitl I get some extra cash and send for a CPU.

Thanks again,
Bill
 

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I'ts been a while since I've had to prod the electrics of an F4 1000R so I could be wrong, but from memory, the fuse and relay setup is similar to all previous F4s in that the fuse box is literally just that, it contains only the fuses all switching is still handled by external standard mechanical relays.

To me it looks like the F4 1000R wiring diagram lists/details the various relays as individual components and doesn't seem to suggest that they are part of a larger assembly or component. As far as I'm aware, to date, only the Brutale range utilise a fuse box with integral relay switching.
You are right...I just took a quick glance to see that the injectors and ignition are all on separate and not paired circuits but didn't have time to go much further then. So the Fuse/relay box for the B4 750 as shown are probably same for 910s??
 

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I could be wrong as I don't pay much attention to Brutale models but off the top of my head the Brutale 750 and 910S utilise the same fuse box but the 910R and newer models use a similar but slightly different fuse box.
 

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Hartley, thank you for the schematic, it is much better than the one I have but I still don't understand it well enough to identify what I have to do to get power to the coils/fuel pump.
Will probably wait unitl I get some extra cash and send for a CPU.

Thanks again,
Bill
If the budget stretches to a new Fuse box/CPU (whatever you want to call it) then that is probably the best solution as although your pump and coils are not getting power there is a possibility that the faulty component(s) or circuit within the fuse box are still live and could cause further issues or damage at a some point down the line.

The quick and dirty guide to fitting an external relay is as follows (assuming the circuit diagrams are correct for your model)....

Take a tap from pin 5 (one of the red cables) of the fuse box to the power input of your external relay. Then, remove the cables from pins 8,9 and 10 (all three Green/Red cables) and connect them to the power output of your external relay.


Then remove the cable from pin 33 (Red/Yellow) and connect to one side of the external relay coil. Then remove the cable from pin 34 (Blue/Green) and connect that to the other external relay coil terminal.

Easier said than done I know but that is the rough jist of it.

*if* you intend to use a relay with an internal procetion diode or fit a diode externally then you will need to observe the polarity of the diode otherwise there is a possibility of causng damage to the ECU.

I would also recommend you use a relay holder/socket with integral fuse holder or at least fit an inline fuse on the power side.
 

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I ordered a new fuse box/CPU for mine after a fried the left indicator circuit, a new one was £280 (nearly fell over) but seemed the only solution. Recieved it last week and after install the indicators worked but the headlight didn't, so off it went back to the dealer and i still await a replacement. Hopefully this will fix everything.

PS i ordered the new series of fuse box that is supposedly on the 910R and such like and apart from the headlight (which i'm assuming as another fault in the box) it worked fine in my 750.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Hartley, thanks for taking the time to explain. I looked at it today but think I am better off going with a new CPU and hope it don't happen again to the new one !! There is a dealer in Boston (Beverly) that is supposed to be able to get one for me in a short period of time.
With the bubble/burn mark in the circuit board, I am afraid that there might be other damage or as you mentioned, something still live that might cause damage to the ECU or elsewhere. Time to just bite the bullet.

Bill
 
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