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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
http://www.motomatters.com The preseason rumors of Dorna restricting RPMs of the new Ducati V4 are looking more like a reality as again Dorna is discussing restricting the Ducati V4 because it has won the first 6 races . Dorna restricted Aprilia for winning, Kawasaki for winning now Ducati for winning . All it did was raise engineering costs , piss off manufacturers and fans. They cant be this stupid? Honda behind this ? I am going to email Dorna. Not that they will listen. Thanks for the brush up silent . Not doing well, never sleep more than 45 minets at a time.
 

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I am sure that more than 1 bike has to to be consistently good, from a manufacturer?

What position has the next Ducati finished, behind the winning Ducati (way down the field?)?

In my book, Ducati are not dominating the field, it is the rider who is dominating....and you can't penalise him....or can you?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hindering the strongest designs has never worked before yet Dorna still tries to level the playing field in this mannor. Helping lessor/weaker designs (increase displacement ect) has worked in the past but the last effort to increase lessor designs was done in a half assed manor (250cc redline increase ) give Honda CBR1000RR a 100cc displacement increase and leave Ducati, Kawasaki Aprilia alone . Take care all gotta lye down (pain)
 

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Hindering the strongest designs has never worked before yet Dorna still tries to level the playing field . . . give Honda CBR1000RR a 100cc displacement increase . . .
Huh? That is totally contradictory.

You first mention with inferred dissatisfaction about Dorna trying to 'level the playing field' but then about-face by saying they should allow Honda an extra 100cc capacity? Where is the 'level' in that?

I don't hide my alliance to Honda, but even I should prefer to see them lift their game through technological and mechanical expertise rather than a 'gift' of 100cc. My view is that if Kawasaki, Ducati, Yamaha engineers have the ability to extract the best from their 1000cc let them be rewarded with results and not penalised.:wink2:
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Hi Nigel, the 100cc allowed to older/lesser designs is just a more effective way to level playing field that doesn't piss other manufacturers of stronger/newer designs by ruining the hard work they put into there machines to improve them .BTW the 100cc increase is JUST for old designs , say 10 years or older . Keeps the manufacturer in racing and once the manufacturer designes new package they must be within the 1000cc limit . Similar to what was done with Ducati. I am for increasing displacement for lesser designs to level playing field but against opposing innovation of new technology. To level playing field.
 

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And hello back to you!

This is an 'agree to disagree' situation.:wink2: I totally oppose all forms of concessions to help a team win. The only constraints should be of financial to restrict major players throwing endless cash at development.

My view is very black and white. If we are to have competitions to establish the best (for that is what competing is about) we must see that all competitors compete under the same rules. No added capacity and no rev limitations etc.

My view also extends to personal athletic performance. If John Smith has trained hard for the 800 metres and can run consistent 1:42s, why should he be handicapped 5 metres so that Fred Nurk has a chance of winning?

This could run an endless debate, I know.:grin2: (Interesting, nonetheless)
 

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And hello back to you!

This is an 'agree to disagree' situation.:wink2: I totally oppose all forms of concessions to help a team win. The only constraints should be of financial to restrict major players throwing endless cash at development.

My view is very black and white. If we are to have competitions to establish the best (for that is what competing is about) we must see that all competitors compete under the same rules. No added capacity and no rev limitations etc.

My view also extends to personal athletic performance. If John Smith has trained hard for the 800 metres and can run consistent 1:42s, why should he be handicapped 5 metres so that Fred Nurk has a chance of winning?

This could run an endless debate, I know.:grin2: (Interesting, nonetheless)

Would putting a stone in John's running shoe, count as a handicap 0:)
 

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when the team Kawasaki was penalised with lower revs it seems to me (and I could be wrong as i've been in error once before) that
the works teams just re-engineered the motor to shift the power band , it did nothing to make the racing better but then again
Johnny Rae is an exceptianaly talented rider that Honda should've put in moto GP properly when he was winning on a Honda superbike
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Nigel we are on the same page but Dorna seems hell bent on trying control the performance of WSBK machines. The 100cc displacement to lesser/old designs is certainly the lesser of 2 evils. Its like dealing with the government, you have to give them Something to get them off your back. Honda is the LAST company that should need help to get a competitive Superbike on the WSBK grid . A company like Triumph for example you can understand. They have no Superbike in there line up and is a small company. Mr Honda is turning in his grave . Honda has the NEW RC213v just sitting in a warehouse yet they are still using the 10 year old design CBR1000RR???
PS Speaking of Dorna logic. When Dorna had a special meeting to discuss the high speeds attained in MotoGP, One members solution was to go back to the tire compounds of 3-5 years ago.( Motomatters.com) Do the members of Dorna actually ride a motorcycle ??
 

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Nigel we are on the same page . . .
Yes, agreed, and fair enough. But my page reads better!:grin2:

. . . When Dorna had a special meeting to discuss the high speeds attained in MotoGP, One members solution was to go back to the tire compounds of 3-5 years ago . . .
This smacks of copying the F1 (1988) requirement of grooved tyres to slow down cars. You're totally correct: tyres have a far greater role:smile2: than just top speed.
 

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The other way to look at it is Dorna propping up losing which is exactly what the old Ducati V twins and now V4s would be doing if they weren't being propped up by a displacement crutch.

Have always felt the Ducatis are overhyped competing against smaller better designed engines. Goes all the way the way back to the 916 era.
 

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I can't believe I am going to defend Ducati!

I was against the 750 vs 916 approach, which for me was making bikes compete that no one else would choose by cost or performance. I think club racing is always a good gauge, what wins there is a fairer comparison. I only ever competed against 1 Ducati at club level (superbike) and he had more money than sense :).

There is an argument because of WSB propping up Ducati, it lead to the demise of 750's as eventually 1000 4's were needed to compete, then the twins increase capacity again, where does it end? Remember the homologation specials, from Ducati and Yamaha et al.

Anyway that's the history.

Ducati does not have a capacity advantage now, the V4R is 998cc. It also seems easier to buy a V4R than the equivalent Kawasaki, but they all meet the production quantity rules. 1st time in a long time, if you exclude the Buell they are all on the same cc. There will always be bikes at different point of the development cycle, so parity will never truly exist. I think Ducati have actually done a very good job, great rider and a great bike.

Racing is about profit not wining, for the organisers anyway. They need a spectacle, that's why so many championships have control factors ecu's, tyres, cc, RPM limits etc to create a spectacle. Do I personally agree with the balancing, not 100%. There should never be a compensation to enable a competitor to catch the leader, if you like, but a hand to the lower end of the field to close up the gaps is OK in my mind, so long as if their result improve above a team with out compensation then they have to lose that compensation.

You have to look at the current WSB and say one rider is working the bike significantly better than others.

On a personal note, I have never understood why a top speed advantage is always berated, you don't hear people saying that's not fair that bike has superior mid corner balance, or not fair its so good on the brakes. I guess that it comes down to the belief that you 'only' need to open the throttle to use the top speed and that takes no skill? Looking at Bautista, he is getting on the throttle very early and that takes some serious danglies and skill, just like corner entry and mid corner.

Laverty said that it's the first bike he has ridden which does everything well, no real weaknesses. I feel possibly for the first time, apples for apples, Ducati has beat the field, and the rest need to catch up.

While this year may not go down as one of the best, in terms of dominance and the whole race being about 2nd, 3rd, 4th. Next year may be really good, 1 or 2 dominant riders battling for 1st, like the 2002 championship.

Anyway that just my opinion.

Current homologation list
APRILIA RSV4 1000 RR/RF
BMW S 1000 RR
EBR 1190 RX
DUCATI Panigale V4R
HONDA CBR 1000 RR (SC77)
KAWASAKI ZX-10 RR
MVAGUSTA F4 RR
SUZUKI GSX R 1000 R
YAMAHA YZF – R1
 
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