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Discussion Starter #21
wow that's fark. How come the spindle split in two different places, could it be that the pervious owner or service person over tighten the spindle? If the hub failed wouldn't the bearing(s) discinigrate well before the spindle?

Also how come the 55mm nut is blacken and burnt in colour? Did someone use a blow torch to release the nut?
The damage to the spindle was the mechanics trying to free it from the hub!! The applied heat to the nut, without success, and then had to cut the spindle and remove it that way!! The mechanic 'russ bennett of bennetts barnlsey' is now the technical director for MV in the uk and knows his way around these bikes. If this was the only way you could get the spindle off, then i'm sure every other avenue was explored. The bearings were not beyond salvage, but the heat generated from lack of lubrication had wrecked the spindle, and the hub would have been next!

cheers
tony
 

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The damage to the spindle was the mechanics trying to free it from the hub!! The applied heat to the nut, without success, and then had to cut the spindle and remove it that way!! The mechanic 'russ bennett of bennetts barnlsey' is now the technical director for MV in the uk and knows his way around these bikes. If this was the only way you could get the spindle off, then i'm sure every other avenue was explored. The bearings were not beyond salvage, but the heat generated from lack of lubrication had wrecked the spindle, and the hub would have been next!

cheers
tony

Funny, I would have to take question with the mechanic if he tried heating the spindle nut to seperate the spindle from the hub. Heating the nut would only make the spindle expand making the fit between the spindle and the bearing even tighter, thus making it more difficult to remove.



Edit, the more I read, look at the pictures and think about it, the more perplexed I get. I looked at the first two pictures pretty closely and see the burned on grease on the left hand side of the spindle where the needle bearing is. I see a little bit of damage to the race but not a ton of evidence that it was seized on. There is also a bit of pitting on the other side of the spindle where the ball bearings ride. Now the burned on greasy mess on the left side of the spindle is probably a result of using a torch to heat up the spindle nut which burned the grease and most likely the seals as well. Now looking at the left spindle nut it looks like it broke due to torsion. But what is really interesting is the midshaft break in the spindle. Now I know they told you they had to cut off the spindle in order to save the hub, but there is no way to cut the spindle in the middle like that because it is inside the hub. By your own account there was no evidence the bearings had failed, no rocking, no side to side play and the wheel must have turned otherwise you would have noticed it. They said the Bearings where salvageable? WTF? In order for the spindle to have been so tightly stuck in the hub the bearings would have to have welded themselves to the spindle, which would have meant that they got extremely hot (or rusted on, but I don't see evidence of corrosion in your pictures), would have made tremendous noise and been very noticeable. The bearings would have also most likely spun in the hub, destroying the hub interface which would have also rendered the hub un-useable. Also, you say that the mechanic "knows his way" around these bikes yet is re-using the hub rather than replacing the entire hub assembly as recommended by the manufacturer? Seems a bit odd to me that a shop would deviate from the recomendations of the factory and expose themselves to the liability associated with performing a repair outside the guidelines established by the factory. Something is not right here and there is some information missing. I would be very skeptical about what you where told by the shop, because I can't see the need to cause that sort of damage to the spindle especially on a bike which didn't show any signs of bearing damage.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Funny, I would have to take question with the mechanic if he tried heating the spindle nut to seperate the spindle from the hub. Heating the nut would only make the spindle expand making the fit between the spindle and the bearing even tighter, thus making it more difficult to remove.



Edit, the more I read, look at the pictures and think about it, the more perplexed I get. I looked at the first two pictures pretty closely and see the burned on grease on the left hand side of the spindle where the needle bearing is. I see a little bit of damage to the race but not a ton of evidence that it was seized on. There is also a bit of pitting on the other side of the spindle where the ball bearings ride. Now the burned on greasy mess on the left side of the spindle is probably a result of using a torch to heat up the spindle nut which burned the grease and most likely the seals as well. Now looking at the left spindle nut it looks like it broke due to torsion. But what is really interesting is the midshaft break in the spindle. Now I know they told you they had to cut off the spindle in order to save the hub, but there is no way to cut the spindle in the middle like that because it is inside the hub. By your own account there was no evidence the bearings had failed, no rocking, no side to side play and the wheel must have turned otherwise you would have noticed it. They said the Bearings where salvageable? WTF? In order for the spindle to have been so tightly stuck in the hub the bearings would have to have welded themselves to the spindle, which would have meant that they got extremely hot (or rusted on, but I don't see evidence of corrosion in your pictures), would have made tremendous noise and been very noticeable. The bearings would have also most likely spun in the hub, destroying the hub interface which would have also rendered the hub un-useable. Also, you say that the mechanic "knows his way" around these bikes yet is re-using the hub rather than replacing the entire hub assembly as recommended by the manufacturer? Seems a bit odd to me that a shop would deviate from the recomendations of the factory and expose themselves to the liability associated with performing a repair outside the guidelines established by the factory. Something is not right here and there is some information missing. I would be very skeptical about what you where told by the shop, because I can't see the need to cause that sort of damage to the spindle especially on a bike which didn't show any signs of bearing damage.
Hi,

You have thrown up a lot of opinions that's got me thinking!! As my knowledge of the mechanics is basic, i have taken the mechanics judgement as gospel!! I have taken some of your questions and emailed him for clarification on exactly what has been done and why, and whether or not mv can take some responsibility for this. Incidentally i still have the damaged spindle and the photos were taken by the mechanic to show the servicing and the damage to the spindle - not exactly the work of someone who may be hiding something from me! when they get back to me, i will let you know what they say.
But thanks for the analysis and input its much appreciated
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Hi,

You have thrown up a lot of opinions that's got me thinking!! As my knowledge of the mechanics is basic, i have taken the mechanics judgement as gospel!! I have taken some of your questions and emailed him for clarification on exactly what has been done and why, and whether or not mv can take some responsibility for this. Incidentally i still have the damaged spindle and the photos were taken by the mechanic to show the servicing and the damage to the spindle - not exactly the work of someone who may be hiding something from me! when they get back to me, i will let you know what they say.
But thanks for the analysis and input its much appreciated
Spoke to the engineer at length regarding the damage to the hub - this is the response, which i believe is fair comment
'After looking at the invoice and the job card, pictures and talking to Matthew (chief Tech at Bennett’s) the facts are the main axel had fused to the wheel spacer and NOT the bearings as we first might have thought. As the spacer is in the centre of the hub then its impossible to get to the thing so force and indeed heat is needed to drift the axel out.'
Using heat would have destroyed the bearings, and they were replaced in the new hub.
This makes more sense and i'm releaved the bearings have been replaces!
 

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Spoke to the engineer at length regarding the damage to the hub - this is the response, which i believe is fair comment
'After looking at the invoice and the job card, pictures and talking to Matthew (chief Tech at Bennett’s) the facts are the main axel had fused to the wheel spacer and NOT the bearings as we first might have thought. As the spacer is in the centre of the hub then its impossible to get to the thing so force and indeed heat is needed to drift the axel out.'
Using heat would have destroyed the bearings, and they were replaced in the new hub.
This makes more sense and i'm releaved the bearings have been replaces!

Glad that it is all sorted out, but if you measure the internal diameter of the spacer it is a good few mm larger than the diameter of the spindle and I personally doubt that the spacer would fuse to the spindle. The above picture does not show any metal fusing between spindle and spacer. Look at the righthand thread, it seems like it has been put in a vice as the threads are damaged and fucked up.

The spacer is a very loose fit in the hub with plenty of play. I've dismantle both my 750 and 1000 and both bikes the spacers were loose.

I beleive that the spindle was damaged due to trying to remove the 55mm nut via either rattle gun and or application of heat.

IMHO the only failure I see is not telling the customer the truth, I hope they pay for the repairs.
 

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I had to have my rear hub and bearings replaced at 7100 miles no warning was running some fast sweepers at about 100 to 110 MPH
and the rear would squirm on entry like the tire was going flat ,pulled off the highway and had about 2" of play in the rear wheel
trashed the rear rotor and caliper mount as well ,had extended warranty and it was fixed would have cost about 1600.00 US otherwise
but the fact that I'm still alive .....priceless ....CHANGE THE HUB don't let them reuse it it's not worth the chance
 

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Best way to check the sealed twin-row ball bearing is to remove the wheel and with a finger firmly pressed on the inside of the axle (right hand or wheel side) firmly rock or turn the axle clockwise and anticlockwise (with quite a bit of pressure. When I did that to mine after near 40 000kms, I could feel a roughness in the bearing.

On taking the rear axle out with a massive hit from a brick layers hammer and protecting the end of the axle with 1" thick lump of plywood I found that the sealed twin row ball bearing had overheated and on cutting it apart the races had pitted from the heat and (why it was difficult to remove) the bearing case had welded itself to the axle shaft!

There is no need to replace the hub if the bearings haven't spun on the axle and started to chew into the aluminium cast hub!

The needle roller bearing is the only one that you can grease and this should be checked as per manual etc and I dont think many service guys do that!

I reused my old seals and if you don't ride in the wet or on dusty roads they should last for a long time with proper care!!

I would take the rear wheel off and check the axle bearings quite regularly .... for peace of mind when my cheeks are pressed around the back of my head at over 200k's!!!

My 2cents worth!
 

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i know exactlyy what you mean..although i was doing over 120kmh on the freeway when my rear hub went.....wasnt very pretty aluminiumn every where and smoke...and i was crying..what a disaster
 

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Would this be picked up when the rear wheel comes off for a tyre change ????
 

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At a tyre change would be a good point to check the bearing. When you spin a bearing with your fingers you should not feel anything unusual such as roughness, heavier pressure needed to turn in some spots etc etc. Good bearings feel absolutely smooth!!

An easy check is to rock the wheel left and right in a horizontal plane when it is on the side stand - mine had a few mms of play but the bearing was still sitting in its correct position and hadn't start to spin on the axle or chew into the hub metal. I t could have been like that for quite a few thousand kms - who knows??

But every bearing failure would be different and occur under different operating conditions such as high water pressure spray, incorrect adjustment of chain pinch bolts etc etc!!!

I was lucky with mine and after I discovered the play in the rear bearing I did ride it for a few weeks with no ill effects!!!!

But I may have been taking a big risk????
 
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