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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I don't get it, I really don't. Is every moto journalist being paid off? Are the e-zines and print media types getting kick backs?
Or, is the Triumph 675R really the "be all and end all" of the sports bike world?

Balz, (crash2much) has been posting that with the introduction of the 2nd gen RBW system the throttle problems are now but a distant memory. However, no one else seems to have got the memo. I attended the MMIC Toronto Motorcycle Show this past weekend and found myself having to defend my purchase of an F3 to many who have read the latest "Shoot Out" in Motorcyclist Magazine.

Here are some of the most damning quotes;

"...the F3 800, equipped with the most complicated—if not sophisticated—electronics platform in this group. MV's Motor & Vehicle Integrated Control System (MVICS) offers the choice of three individual engine maps (including one that can be customized by the owner), eight-level-adjustable traction control, adjustable engine braking, even two rev limiter settings. Unfortunately, MVICS is difficult to master and control with its hidden menus and maddeningly vague switchgear, and, worse, alarmingly incompetent in application."

"MV Agusta engineers apparently spent more time specifying settings than tuning settings because, with few exceptions, none of the settings work as intended. MV Agusta reps explained that TC intervention is informed by pre-programmed "grip curves" calibrated for "street tires and street conditions;" in our experience rendering the system essentially useless—dangerous even—at the racetrack. MVICS cut power at the most inopportune times, when traversing bumps, changing direction, or picking up the throttle at a downhill corner apex—where it presumably misinterpreted the combination of increasing wheel speed and closed throttle as wheelspin. When the manufacturer's rep says it's best to ride the bike with traction control deactivated, that's a clear sign the system isn't ready for prime time. Ironically, even though it has the strongest brakes, the F3 is the only bike here without ABS. Given how glitchy the other electronics are, though, this is probably a good thing."

"...underdeveloped, ill-conceived technology is MV Agusta's undoing."

"At $15,798, the MV Agusta F3 800 is the most expensive bike here. With its exotic styling, legendary heritage, and top-tier fit-and-finish that's to be expected—even justified. But beta-stage software development, the balky transmission, and outright flaws like a gear indicator that couldn't see sixth gear are unacceptable at any pricepoint, especially this one. It might be the best MV in recent memory, but that's not saying enough. Like many exotics, this bike is built for someone with more money than sense."

That last line I take as a personal insult. Wouldn't you? Shouldn't we all?

So I ask, does MV Agusta know this?

I've been very vocal about my disappointments and this past weekend just underscored that fact. I tried to get answers from the Canadian rep but he didn't know that MV had changed it's web site. He wasn't aware of new products like the "for closed course use only" ECU. Or, if there was a new update for my bike.
I've been in lust with MV ever since the 1967 Canadian Grand Prix. I was so excited when the brand finally came to Canada in 2011. I'm committed to the MV Agusta brand. I put down my non refundable deposit months before my bike was built. I waited and waited for it to arrive. I've suffered through all the teething pains one would expect with a new model. I'm looking forward to getting the latest upgrade as well as all the little niggling things fixed so I can hopefully have a fun filled, non eventful summer of riding.
All I ask for is a little respect with regards to my purchase decision and for having the determination to see it through. Instead, so called friends and strangers alike laugh and point at me as they clutch their magazines blissfully ignorant of the biased, misinformation or out right lies contained within the pages.

You can read the entire article here.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/comparisons/the_upper_middle_class_mc_comparo/viewall.html
 

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Hey Stephen, if guys like yourself and Balz don't say anything, nobody will.
Let me think, wen did the TR 675 win their last WSS race.
Sorry, jokes aside, I think MV "pr" outside of Europe have a bit of work to do, to say the least. Remember last year (2013) when the F3 won the South African Superstock Championship, did not even show up MV.it site man....WTF.
The one thing you get when buying a MV, is the opportunity to stand up for what you chose, and it's not always easy mate, now you know me better.
 

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And let's not forget Ari "Triumph-is-the-best" Henning and his wonderful comments:

"Too bad, then, that the package suffers from the same awful traction control and asinine interface that afflicts all of MV's sportbikes"

He also repeatedly makes comments to the effect that MV copied Triumph with the triple.

So tired of him...
 

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I'm assuming Ford copied Triumph as well when it put a triple in the Fiesta and Focus.
 

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That's why I stopped reading motorcycle magazines. The bias is ridiculous. It wouldn't surprise me if Triumph was paying people off to get good reviews.
 

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Having handled MV Agusta's press relations and managing the press fleet in the U.S. for the last 2 years, I have got to know most US motorcycle journalists. I have seen what goes on blatantly in front of us and I have a good idea what happens behind the scenes.

I could right a novel, I would like to scream out loud, and I have much light to shed on things, but I am not going to. Journalists are just something all manufacturers have to deal with. Some manufacturers have learnt long ago how to get the best out of it and others/"newer" manufacturers have not yet quite figured out the tricks of the trade - but we will get there.

In the meantime do not put too much value on the magazine reviews and be your own judge. It doesn't mean much which motorcycle Motorcyclist or any other magazine likes or dislikes.
Nowadays all motorcycles are very good and the performance differences between them are rather small. In the end, all that matters is which bike is the most exciting for YOU to have in YOUR garage.
 

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Wise words

Having handled MV Agusta's press relations and managing the press fleet in the U.S. for the last 2 years, I have got to know most US motorcycle journalists. I have seen what goes on blatantly in front of us and I have a good idea what happens behind the scenes.

I could right a novel, I would like to scream out loud, and I have much light to shed on things, but I am not going to. Journalists are just something all manufacturers have to deal with. Some manufacturers have learnt long ago how to get the best out of it and others/"newer" manufacturers have not yet quite figured out the tricks of the trade - but we will get there.

In the meantime do not put too much value on the magazine reviews and be your own judge. It doesn't mean much which motorcycle Motorcyclist or any other magazine likes or dislikes.
Nowadays all motorcycles are very good and the performance differences between them are rather small. In the end, all that matters is which bike is the most exciting for YOU to have in YOUR garage.
Balz, thank you for the explanation, here in the UK the same blatant rubbish is spoken by the UK press. They cannot be trusted to tell the truth, the only real way to find out is to go ride the bikes.

jimboF4
 

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If I listened to all their hype, I would only have cheap Jap bikes in the shop! Ha!
It is like anything else try test it and decide for yourself.
Yamaha FZ-9 $7k+, triumph 675R $13.6k, F3 $14.5k.
I have ridden the FZ-9 and the 675R, I would buy the Yammy.
Yamaha vs. MV, MV hands down as i really love my F4.
We did not buy our MVs from magazine reviews, did we? Fuck em, get what spins your prop.
Magazine reviews are always slanted.........as is my slanted opinion! :)

Ed :)
 

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friends and strangers alike laugh and point at me as they clutch their magazines
Yes, but you're the one clutching the keys!

I think it's very true that the MV's electronics are under-developed, especially compared to larger factories with more budget to spend on development. The dash user-interface on the F4 could certainly have done with a proper UI designer. There's no feedback upon a positive selection at all. You have to go back in to check that the change you think you made was actually applied. I put a lot of journalist frustration at trying to do a quick launch, testing the TC, etc. down to that. I can't help but wonder whether they're actually using the settings they think they are and it casts their whole overriding opinions into doubt in my mind. It's easy to see why they then rate it so badly compared to other bikes with better designed UIs tha leave no room for error, especially when they see MV is charging a premium for something that could've done with only a small amount of extra effort to make it so much better.

Si
 

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First things first, the F3/B3 dash interface does suck, I've owned mine now for 8 months and still struggle to figure out the black art of changing the settings, my dealer went to the factory to see a demonstration of the F3 when they released it and even the guys from MV struggled to work it out, what does that tell you? Prime example, resetting the trip counter, you'd think that was pretty basic so why doesn't it just reset to zero when you hold down the button instead of zeroing when you lift your finger off, I shouldn't have to count in my head how long I've been pressing the button before I release it and if I've not held it long enough then the menu changes to something else grrrr!

Anyhow, a small gripe, but annoying one all the same, luckily it's overshadowed for me by the pluses everywhere else.
I'll move on to the subject at hand. Before I read the review you linked I went to their long term page to see what bikes they've been given for the year by the manufacturers, that usually tells you all you need to know when it comes to how a review is going to go, that and who buys the full page adverts in the magazine ;) When's the last time you saw an MV given to the media on a long term test? Or even an MV advert in the magazine for that matter?

Some magazines/papers here in the UK clearly favour a manufacturer, and no doubt they pay a lot of money in advertising and free long termers in exchange for such favourable reviews in return, even to the point where the paper/mag will stick the bike into a group test shootout that it doesn't even belong in just so they can bleat on about how great it is!

Last year a paper ripped into the Brutale 800, criticising everything about it, they even went as far to say that despite it being the only one on test with fully adjustable suspension they doubted that would make any difference, wtf!? The very same bike was then given to another magazine and they loved its manic attitude, admitted the fuelling wasn't ideal but acknowledged that it's a work in progress for MV and they are updating it and you can just roll into your local dealer, download a new map much like updating your phone and you ride out with a new bike, they also acknowledged that MV in the UK have changed the way they work with the dealers and that is great news.

But MV haven't helped themselves, that B800 given to the two magazines has been passed around all over Europe from one mag to the next, never seeing a dealer or going back to MV for a service or map update or replace the known faulty gear selector sensor, (sounds like the same is going on with the F3 tested above?) it finally ended up at my local dealer for them to use as a demo and they are the only ones to have the forethought to service and update it (it still had the original fuel map).

I don't know who's responsible for the bikes that get given to the media, whether it's MV or the country's importer, some mags will always just shoot it down for the backhanded reasons earlier but if the factory/importer aren't going to make the effort to give them the best bike they can then they're just gifting them the ammo to shoot it down?

Maybe MV will change their tact in the future, their are making more models to appeal to a wider range of customers than ever before and they might just have to give in to the fact that if they want good reviews of their bikes in the media then they are going to have to suck up to the press with lots of advertising and free long termers?

Having said that maybe they realise that already, the media seem to love the Rivale so MV must have put them all up in a swanky hotel and filled their bags with loads of free merchandise? ;)


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First things first, the F3/B3 dash interface does suck, I've owned mine now for 8 months and still struggle to figure out the black art of changing the settings, my dealer went to the factory to see a demonstration of the F3 when they released it and even the guys from MV struggled to work it out, what does that tell you? Prime example, resetting the trip counter, you'd think that was pretty basic so why doesn't it just reset to zero when you hold down the button instead of zeroing when you lift your finger off, I shouldn't have to count in my head how long I've been pressing the button before I release it and if I've not held it long enough then the menu changes to something else grrrr!
I don't mind the interface being critiqued, it's when Ari says things like "asinine" that turns me off. How about, "they need to work on the dash interface because it is very confusing and hard to work with." I realize the "asinine" was quoted from his side bar, but in reading this magazine over the years, he just in general comes off as kind of a jerk. And, I am so sick of hearing him talk about Triumph.
 

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I'm in Canada and just bought the dragster 800. Thank god I can't ride it yet cause it's still winter, but it came to the dealer with no tune. I have to take the bike back in spring and it takes 1/2hour to download the time which isn't available yet for Canadian bikes.
 

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There are motorcycling journalists?

If I had taken even the slightest bit of notice of what most journalists and reviewers had to say about MV Agusta, then I would have laid down cash for something else. I have an MV Agusta. Period. 99% of my motorcycle related time is actually riding my bike, getting to know its quirks, researching what I might do to refine it for my particular, style, use and needs and I might say, really enjoying it. I spend the other 1% reading articles and reviews, then wrapping my lunch in the paper they were written on. Yes, they have some work to do as far as PR and communications go. So do journalists.
 

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I don't mind the interface being critiqued, it's when Ari says things like "asinine" that turns me off. How about, "they need to work on the dash interface because it is very confusing and hard to work with." I realize the "asinine" was quoted from his side bar, but in reading this magazine over the years, he just in general comes off as kind of a jerk. And, I am so sick of hearing him talk about Triumph.

That's typical of a journalist who's already decided the winner of a group test before they've even left their office.
If you know what Ari's like then maybe it's best you just ignore his opinion (same as he does towards anything that's not got a Triumph badge on it) or don't read the mag at all?
 

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That's typical of a journalist who's already decided the winner of a group test before they've even left their office.
If you know what Ari's like then maybe it's best you just ignore his opinion (same as he does towards anything that's not got a Triumph badge on it) or don't read the mag at all?
Honestly, although I find Ari annoying, I generally enjoy looking at motorcycle mags. I subscribe to a few so we're only talking a buck an issue if that. To me, owning a motorcycle is such an emotional and personal thing, that there is nothing anyone (especially from a magazine or on the internet) could say to stop me from buying a bike if I want it.

I do think it is unfortunate for MV that they've had some teething issues with the new 3 series of bikes, but it will get better and hopefully they'll get better with their marketing of themselves. So long as they can keep making bikes - with passion - that's all that matters to me.
 

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My problem with the negative press is it influences some people purchases. MV is a great brand and bike. I hate to see it crapped on. I love mine and all to often I have to defend it due to the crap reviews. It is incredible. I was encouraging a guy I met while riding to test ride one and he said no because the magazines said it was crap. He said the reviewer know more about the bike in there 1 hour or less time on the bike then me with 6000 miles of time in the saddle. Some people, granted he was a douch bag but still.

My biggest gripe with reviewers is they are looking for a winner. Every bike is different and good for a specific role. Some are more all around then others. I wish reviewers would recommend bike comparisons based on what a specific bike is good for. Not this is the best one the rest suck. How many of us have more then one bike in the garage? No one bike does everything well.
 

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I don't really give a toss what other people think and when my mates give me any stick about it I just give them the key and let them decide :) To be honest my mate rode mine just after I'd got it and it scared the hell out of him (and he is a fast experienced rider) :laughing: he's ridden it since though and thinks the updates have made a great improvement :)


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They were pretty biased towards the Triumph in that article. I think they were being paid to ensure that some mention of the Daytona was in every sentence. :jerkoff:

Doesn't the F3 800 have ABS? Did they get a demo bike that wasn't equipped? :wtf:

The whole shootout seemed a bit of a scam comparing bikes that weren't in the same class, like a shootout between a Veyron, Ferrari, Corvette, and Civic.

MV Agusta does need better PR and advertising, though it seems to be getting there slowly. Also, if they've truly sorted the bugs with the new software, they should get some bikes out there for re-evaluation or as long term testers.

I can't knock the reviewers for pointing out the user interface. I don't mind taking the 5 minutes to reset my trip meter or the logical black box of mystery that controls the TC because I rode it first :yo: and that is enough to erase most faults. However, focusing on those faults so heavily and negatively for issue to those who haven't had that opportunity can turn people off prematurely. :blah:
 
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