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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
A friend asked me whether the Brutale needs a damper. I thought it would be good to discuss on the forum rather than in PM.

I'm a little disapointed that MV doesn't include a damper. The arrangement on the F4 is nice with mounts built into the frame. I can understand cutting cost. But should the omission of a damper be construed to mean that the Brutale doesn't need one?

As far as I can tell from the specs, the Brutale has the same geometry as the F4.

To me a damper's sole purpose is to prevent or combat a slapper condition. It shouldn't be used to mask other problems like high-speed wobble or whatever. The question is whether the geometry of the brutale, or how a particular bike is setup, is conducive to a slapper condition. Obviously I could change the geometry by lowering the tripples or raising the rear, that might make the bike more conducive to the slapper condition.

In my experience a slapper usually occurs when you're hard on the gas and the front tire is light--skimming the surface. If you hit a ripple or bump the front can slap back and forth not knowing which direction to go...

Another thought I had was whether the grips on the Brutale are mounted out further than say the clip-ons on an F4. And whether that gives the rider more leverage to prevent a slapper. I doubt it, but would like to hear of people experiences on the Brutale.

For me it's a tough decision. I don't want to wait until I get into trouble, ie slapper, before I get one. I still remember an instructor that went from a TZ to and RC and didn't think he needed a damper. He slapped coming out of the last corner and down the front straight, as is often the case, and wound up on his head and in the hospital for a few days. I think if I was to do track days on the 910, I would definitely get a damper. Whether I'll hit the street as hard? I'm not sure.

I don't think a damper is a bad addition. But they should be used for their intended purppose and not tightened down to mask other problems that should be fixed/addressed elsewhere.

Opinions? Anyone get into a slapper on their Brutale?
 

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As I said on other threads, I also think that steering damper is a must on a Brutale. It should be a factory stuff.

I put a Matris M4R a few month ago on my 910S and I can say that you really feel the difference.

http://www.carpimoto.it/product/Lang_EN/Chan_1/Firm_17/Prod_13667.htm

You simply are more confident when you put hard throttle on bumpy road.

Why does not MV put it as standard like on the F4 with the same geometry ?
 

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I don't have enough experience riding bikes with dampers, but I have been considering getting one for the Brutale. My reasoning is that the wider handlebars give increased leverage but I think that this also translates into being more sensitive to steering inputs. I have already been leaned over in a curve and hit a bump that caused me to jerk the steering. I think a damper would lessen the impact. I looked into get a damper here in the US but nobody carries them for the Brutale. I think I am going to wait a while and get used to the bike before I make the move to buy one. Now if you are going to track the bike, I think the damper may be required. But I have no plans on doing that.
 

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Olive said:
Why does not MV put it as standard like on the F4 with the same geometry ?
My thoughts exactly Olivier. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Olive said:
Why does not MV put it as standard like on the F4 with the same geometry ?
Cost?

My 99 R1 didn't come with a damper. If any bike needs one, that thing sure did! The steering was very quick and the front end was always light. :)

Olive, have you ever experienced a tank slapper on either of your Brutales?
 

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The Brutale has slightly more relaxed geometry -
"The naked MV was rock solid during that high-speed blast, which was no surprise given its chassis's origins in the fine-handling F4. Steering angle is shifted back by half a degree from the F4's figure, to 24.5 degrees. That also increases the wheelbase slightly, to 1414mm, but this and the Brutale's 408 pound dry weight figure are still in sports bike territory, and the Brutale handles with plenty of poise.

The slightly lazier geometry inevitably meant the bike needed a little more effort to make it change direction, and the fat, 190-section Michelin Pilot Sport on a six-inch rim out back probably doesn't help quick direction changes, either, but its grip helps make good use of the Brutale's abundant ground clearance. And the wide bars offer plenty of leverage, so handling's still impressively agile." - Motorcyclist online.


However, I still believe it could benefit from a damper, as I have had a couple minor tankslappers as well. eMoto sells the Matris damper, though it is not inexspensive, but certainly cheaper than a wreck. As far as I have found, this is the only damper available for the Brutale, which IMO had the damper eliminated because of 1-cost, and 2-it was intended to be primarily street oriented and benefits from greater manuverability.
 

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When you refer to "tank slapper" does that mean one handle bar hits the tank on full lock agressively? or do you mean when the tanks hits your chest ie unintended wheelie?
 

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I think it needs one.
Not so much for tank-slapping, cause I never experianced any.
I would like my bike to feel more stable and secure on long high speed turns – especially on track. I will install the Matris.
 

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Welcome Nidam !

Feel home here.
 

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Nidan said:
I think it needs one.
Not so much for tank-slapping, cause I never experianced any.
I would like my bike to feel more stable and secure on long high speed turns – especially on track. I will install the Matris.
Welcome, Nidan, this is a great forum with great people here, hope you enjoy it. BTW, I was noticing your name, are you a second degree?

BrisBrutale: When you refer to "tank slapper" does that mean one handle bar hits the tank on full lock agressively? or do you mean when the tanks hits your chest ie unintended wheelie?
Tank slapper- rider's legs banging against the sides of the tank rapidly due to front wheel instability/wobble caused by the lack of traction of the front end(during acceleration and/or bumpy road etc.) it is sometimes called speed wobble too.
 

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Another member is trying to get a mount made for the Scotts damper, and I hope he succeeds so we can all benefit. I was just speaking with Pit-Bull, and they have no immediate plans to make one for the Brut either.
However, the more I see the Matris, the more I like it, I just wish I could see/ride one in person.
 

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Just a little trip to Belgium, Fazer6 and I let you try mine !
 

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Slapper

BrisBrutale, a "Tankslapper" is an uncontrolled violent kicking of the bars from side to side usually caused by hard acceleration over an uneven road surface. The steering damper "dampens" this motion out.

All the best
Brian1100xx :later:
 

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odonata said:
Welcome, Nidan, this is a great forum with great people here, hope you enjoy it. BTW, I was noticing your name, are you a second degree?

Yes, your're right I've earned it in 1999.
I still train but haven't tried for the SAN.
Maybe in 2007.......
 

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Brian1100xx said:
BrisBrutale, a "Tankslapper" is an uncontrolled violent kicking of the bars from side to side usually caused by hard acceleration over an uneven road surface. The steering damper "dampens" this motion out.

All the best
Brian1100xx :later:
In french language we say "GUIDONNAGE"
 
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