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Discussion Starter #1
Hey everyone!

Fairly new here and hoping to gain some knowledge from all of you and join the MV family! I used to race local club level stuff about 10 years ago, had a few R6's and an R1. I absolutely loved racing the R6, it was a blast on the track.

I've been wanting to get a track only bike again so naturally I first thought of the R6, I personally really like the redesigned body of the current gen. I have a couple Ducati's right now so I looked at those but not wanting to spent the money on a Panigale. Not a fan of other manufacturers compared to the R6.

BUT, the MV Agusta F3 definitely fits the bill! I think :) I honestly don't know much about them yet but I like how it looks, so that's step 1. I completely understand the many benefits to the R6 as far as parts are concerned. But I won't be racing competitively, more so track days and maybe a race here or there for fun so that "helps" limit the chance of going down.

Originally I'm starting to look into the F3 675 but I keep getting people telling me to also look into the F3 800 as well. Obviously the 675 would be closer to the R6, and it's slightly cheaper. I'd like to get something newer, say 2017+, maybe see if I can score a deal on a leftover 2018 or even a 2019 depending on when the 2020 start showing up.

It's my understand the 675 and 800 are pretty similar except for the motor. Do you think I'd be happy with either for track only use? Anyone get one and wish they had gotten the other? I've never ridden either and the closest dealer is a few hours away. Just trying to gather as much info as possible for now. I'm not in a rush, if I find a good deal this year then awesome. But realistically I won't be taking whatever the next bike is on the track until next year anyway.

I was totally set on a new R6, until I started looking into the F3 more and more, ugh haha
 

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Some people said the 675 is a track weapon and the 800 better for the streets.
Though both are basically indentical bikes apart from the CC levels. 800 delivering more HP and more torque obiously.

I personally think its cooler to go very fast on a "slow" bike and extract the maximum out of it.
800 is the better seller of the two models, though cannot go wrong with 675.

Maybe @dudman can clearify more for you. He races on F3.
 

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If you want to do the occasional race you should stick to the 675 as the 800 will be stuck in a class with liter bikes.

The big advantage of the 800 is the torque, makes it easier to ride....kind of like getting a GSX-R750 instead of a GSX-R600....same bike, broader torque curve, easier to ride.

If you thought your R6 was a track weapon, wait until you ride the MV.... possibly the best handling bike out there in the class.
 

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I am most certainly a slower rider than you are, but can at least provide an experience from having ridden RJ155 Yamaha R6 to 2014MY F3 675 back to RJ27 R6. All stock trim, almost exclusively road use.

I think it depends on what kind of modifications you will apply to a purely track ridden bike.

My impression was that, straight out of the box, even the last gen R6 was a more refined package. The F3 with its engine, the sound and of course the looks is something special and a blast to ride. Don’t expect a Triumph Daytona like triple, the F3 675 is just as a rev monster as the R6, just in a more raw way. It is also a bit snatchy, power does not come very linear. The RJ27 has the exact same ergos as the RJ155, but far better breaks and the front felt better as well. But the Euro4 detuning could be felt (which would not matter if you use it only on track).

From my impression, the stock suspension on the RJ27 is superior to the F3 675‘s (which I believe has stayed the same in the MY17+ Euro4 version). MV has invested in the engine of the Euro4 model, so that it could maintain its top end power. Yamaha has just stuffed some silencing material in the bike’s exhaust system. With both bikes equipped with open pipes and race ECU my guess is that engine wise the two would be more or less on par. Stock electronics of the F3 MY17+ models seem to be more advanced by now with the blipper already onboard. My F3 back then had only quickshift upwards just as the RJ27. I cannot say that they differed in any way.

If I had to choose which I felt more confident on, definitely the R6. Still, the F3 felt more like a „race bike“...

(Not sure if it is still the case, but on the Euro3 models the F3 800 was ex works equipped with monobloc brakes while the 675 had two piece brakes)
 

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Sadly I didn't ride in to work today, otherwise I would say come and check out my bike. (2015 F3 800) more than happy to let you check it out.. We only have one dealer in the PNW, and that is Bellevue Motorsports, WA which I have never been to (been able to sort my own problems thus far)

Like mentioned above, if you think you are going to race it, get the 675. otherwise 800 all the way. I ended up buying the 800 for the additional torque/Hp and reliability, as I am heavier fellow and well it suits me better, lol. My girlfriend is looking at a 675, to ride alongside my F3 800, which would still allow me to ride her bike!

I am assuming you ride PIR, the ridge and maybe pacific?
 

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Fast riders don't normally use stock suspension on a R6, a Tri675 or the MV F3 that is used as a track only/race bike. You probably shouldn't weigh that in your choice. Any of the machines in this class need the suspension done to work great. The F3 is very different than the R6 no question, the engine feel, power delivery and sound are unique. The F3 feels much lighter than the R6 on track - even though they weigh about the same in basic track trim. Probably due to the counter-rotating engine.

My F3 race bike is the best handling motorcycle I've ever ridden, but it is nowhere near a stock machine. "MV is Italian" and that can prove a bit challenging at times & cost a bit more to maintain. If that isn't an issue you will likely enjoy every moment with a F3 on track. They are fun to ride! Hope you get to experience just how much fun they are on track! Cheers
 

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Get the 675, it drives out the corners better than the 800 due to the higher rev range.

I personally find it easier to get good lap times out the 675, less power / torque so you can get on the power sooner. Also the 800 seems to have a narrower power band dropping out of the peak curve between shifts.

To compare to the R6 the F3 675 has a very similar top end rush but also has the bottom grunt the R6 lacks also the stock 675 motor will produce 130bhp + with exhaust and filter and the R6 will only produce around 115-120bhp with stock engine, the only way to gat a similar bhp figure would be by spending around £2000 on engine upgrades.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I personally think its cooler to go very fast on a "slow" bike and extract the maximum out of it.
I completely agree! My R6 was a superbike build and I raced it in the 600 class and up with the liter bikes as well! It definitely held it's own, except on the straights obviously. I could hang with 750's but liter bikes would still take me obviously.

If you want to do the occasional race you should stick to the 675 as the 800 will be stuck in a class with liter bikes.
Yeah that's where the debate comes from. I'd like to do an occasional race but it would just be for fun and for old times sake. I'm not looking to do a whole season just some random race days, I miss the feel of those race mornings, it's definitely different than track days. But also not trying to be competitive, just for fun. and let's be honest, I definitely don't miss paying for race fees and all the extra maintenance/tires that come with racing every month haha.

I am most certainly a slower rider than you are, but can at least provide an experience from having ridden RJ155 Yamaha R6 to 2014MY F3 675 back to RJ27 R6. All stock trim, almost exclusively road use.

I think it depends on what kind of modifications you will apply to a purely track ridden bike.

...

(Not sure if it is still the case, but on the Euro3 models the F3 800 was ex works equipped with monobloc brakes while the 675 had two piece brakes)
Thanks for the comparison between the bikes!! That's really helpful to get an idea of their differences/similarities. As far as mods go, it would be pretty "standard". I'd leave the motor stock. Exhaust, 520 kit, at least brake M/C, maybe calipers depending on whether it was monoblocs or not on the newer bikes like you mentioned. For sure rear shock (probably Ohlins), and something with the front forks, maybe cartridge or something? I've read these bikes could use better suspension for solely track use.

Sadly I didn't ride in to work today, otherwise I would say come and check out my bike. (2015 F3 800) more than happy to let you check it out.. We only have one dealer in the PNW, and that is Bellevue Motorsports, WA which I have never been to (been able to sort my own problems thus far)

Like mentioned above, if you think you are going to race it, get the 675. otherwise 800 all the way. I ended up buying the 800 for the additional torque/Hp and reliability, as I am heavier fellow and well it suits me better, lol. My girlfriend is looking at a 675, to ride alongside my F3 800, which would still allow me to ride her bike!

I am assuming you ride PIR, the ridge and maybe pacific?
Oh nice, thanks for the offer. Yeah I keep leaning towards the 675 because it opens me up to race in any class 600 and up. Bellevue is the only "close" dealer I found too, too bad there isn't anything in Portland.

When I was racing it was always at PIR, although I really want to go to the ridge. I'm planning on taking my Hypermotard out there hopefully this year but I'll at least get it out at PIR again. Hopefully the 1098 too but I need new wheels for it.

Fast riders don't normally use stock suspension on a R6, a Tri675 or the MV F3 that is used as a track only/race bike. You probably shouldn't weigh that in your choice. Any of the machines in this class need the suspension done to work great. The F3 is very different than the R6 no question, the engine feel, power delivery and sound are unique. The F3 feels much lighter than the R6 on track - even though they weigh about the same in basic track trim. Probably due to the counter-rotating engine.

My F3 race bike is the best handling motorcycle I've ever ridden, but it is nowhere near a stock machine. "MV is Italian" and that can prove a bit challenging at times & cost a bit more to maintain. If that isn't an issue you will likely enjoy every moment with a F3 on track. They are fun to ride! Hope you get to experience just how much fun they are on track! Cheers
I can definitely see that. The R6 suspension was OK, until you try to push it and go faster. Even just initially getting a new rear shock made a world of difference. I'll definitely be getting a rear shock but still researching front fork options. Cartridges are cheaper, but man oh man I love the look of Ohlins forks and have them on my other two bikes right now too. Would just have to decide if I want to fork out the extra $$$ or see what kind of deal I can find.

Is yours a 675 or 800? what suspension did you settle on?
 

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F3 with reverse engine crank changes the way you enter and exit turns. I think this is a big reason to pick the F3 for the track. Everyone talks about crank rotation and what that means for directional changes but I find braking and acceleration are where things change more. The overall tendency to wheelie or dive on the nose is reduced and tire wear is different due to that as well.

I think the 800 brakes are also improved up front vs the 675 so if you don't want to buy then change I would do the 800. On my track day at Barber I was never passed once the sessions were opened up. If you are riding for fun then I'm not sure you should care about what class you are in. Both bikes weigh the same.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
@GeorgeO Thanks for the link! I just read the first post and I can already tell it's going to be an interesting read. I knew parts were limited but I'm surprised by how much from reaching that!
@airjawed Yeah I keep hearing about the reverse crank, I was wondering if it was hype or actually noticeable but it seems it does actually change the feel, even for non MotoGP racers haha. I could see getting an 800 if it were track days only, but the 675 is intriguing because for the occasional race I'd be able to race with the 600's and liter bikes which is what I did with my R6. Oh Decisions...
 

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the 800 seems to have a narrower power band dropping out of the peak curve between shifts.
dudman is right on. :yo: With stock gearing this is so true from 1st to 4th gear! Shortening up the gearing mostly eliminates the problem for the 800. Adding more power and tuning further help to make this problem go away.

Even though the 800 makes more power and torque than the 675, it doesn't rev as high and doesn't feel like the power is spread as wide as the 675. So a good pipe, big air tubes, MWR SBK kit and ECU studio/race ecu will allow the 800 to really perform. Short funnels, thin head gasket and oxygenated race fuel take it another step.

Both size engines benefit from these changes, but the 800 comes alive when these mods are done making it a track missile. :devilsmok

:grin2:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
dudman is right on. :yo: With stock gearing this is so true from 1st to 4th gear! Shortening up the gearing mostly eliminates the problem for the 800. Adding more power and tuning further help to make this problem go away.



Even though the 800 makes more power and torque than the 675, it doesn't rev as high and doesn't feel like the power is spread as wide as the 675. So a good pipe, big air tubes, MWR SBK kit and ECU studio/race ecu will allow the 800 to really perform. Short funnels, thin head gasket and oxygenated race fuel take it another step.



Both size engines benefit from these changes, but the 800 comes alive when these mods are done making it a track missile. :devilsmok



:grin2:


Thanks for the tips! Man I’m so torn between the 675 and 800! Both options sound intriguing. I could do actual race days with either. Just need to decide if I want to race with the 600’s also or just the big boys.
 

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As a team that was coming off of Yamaha R6 to the F3, we noticed a number of things during the early development. Our bikes were 2013 models and I know that there have been many updates since but some things aren't going to change for sure. This short list also depends on your level of riding and that will dictate what you can tolerate and what you can't:

1 - The F3 runs hot - very hot. Of the 3 teams running the bike in MotoAmerica years ago, all teams had fans and leaf blowers on standby as the bike came to the pits hot off the track. If we didn't get air to it immediately, the bike pissed water all over the pit area. The same for all F3's on the grid. It was bad enough that we lobbied to have larger capacity radiators approved by tech which they did. This was in the interest of safety of course. The H2O radiator wasn't cheap but dropped the bikes temps considerably.
2 - Engine has a deficit in power/torque in the midrange. It appears to be completely incurable. We tried several pipes and with the help of Dynojet and Attack Performance, tuned the shit out of our bikes with great result except for that spot. We found that eventually, our rider forgot the old R6 response and compensated for this spot exiting corners where it had the worst effect.
3 - The single biggest change we experienced was a racing ECU from EvoBike. I cannot express how much the bike changed after getting a proper race ECU on there with auto-blipping downshifts, engine brake control and a bevvy of other incredibly useful features. It transformed a passable track bike into a weapon.
4 - We never did run the stock suspension but its clear that upgrading to racing suspension is a major upgrade. We have bitubo WSS fork cartridges and rear shock. All charged
5 - Buy and maintain a strong battery whichever one you decide on. The bike will run like shit if the voltage is low and it may not even start. It is unforgiving when under-volted.

Other thoughts:
1 - Even the non-monobloc Brembo calipers were well up to the job. Our bikes do have monoblocs now and its even better.
2 - The counter-rotating crankshaft shows its best results in quick left to right transitions where it takes much less effort to get the bike swung over. Not a huge difference in normal cornering vs the R6
3 - It is great that the bike revs but when compared to the lower revving Triumph 675R, that comes at a cost in the midrange. So more top end power but midrange is somewhat sacrificed to get there.
4 - Lots of great parts available nowadays vs when we first started running the bike. We ran what was basically a Superstock bike in Supersport and paid the price for that decision. At the time, we didn't even have the race ECU as it was just coming to market. It was vapor-ware on MV's site for a long time.
5 - The major negative for us which also led to us pulling out of racing for the last couple of years was the loss of our engine due to dropping a valve (documented on this site). It wasn't the loss of the engine but rather the factories unwillingness to assist what was then the only team running a F3 at any real level in US Roadracing. We simply couldn't stomach the costs to repair with zero guarantee that the motor wouldn't drop another valve in the first run. It was always a factory defect and we never received any help - not even parts at cost to rebuild our engines but thanks to outside help, we managed to collect up what we needed and after a long hiatus, we are going to put ours back on the track again before the end of the year. Maybe MV will help us this time?

Good luck - beautiful bike with lots of capability. A couple of factory supported bikes in the US would be really helpful to their brand awareness in the USA I believe. MotoAmerica is currently a sea of R6's which is a real bummer.
 

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As a team that was coming off of Yamaha R6 to the F3, we noticed a number of things during the early development. Our bikes were 2013 models and I know that there have been many updates since but some things aren't going to change for sure. This short list also depends on your level of riding and that will dictate what you can tolerate and what you can't:

1 - The F3 runs hot - very hot. Of the 3 teams running the bike in MotoAmerica years ago, all teams had fans and leaf blowers on standby as the bike came to the pits hot off the track. If we didn't get air to it immediately, the bike pissed water all over the pit area. The same for all F3's on the grid. It was bad enough that we lobbied to have larger capacity radiators approved by tech which they did. This was in the interest of safety of course. The H2O radiator wasn't cheap but dropped the bikes temps considerably.
2 - Engine has a deficit in power/torque in the midrange. It appears to be completely incurable. We tried several pipes and with the help of Dynojet and Attack Performance, tuned the shit out of our bikes with great result except for that spot. We found that eventually, our rider forgot the old R6 response and compensated for this spot exiting corners where it had the worst effect.
3 - The single biggest change we experienced was a racing ECU from EvoBike. I cannot express how much the bike changed after getting a proper race ECU on there with auto-blipping downshifts, engine brake control and a bevvy of other incredibly useful features. It transformed a passable track bike into a weapon.
4 - We never did run the stock suspension but its clear that upgrading to racing suspension is a major upgrade. We have bitubo WSS fork cartridges and rear shock. All charged
5 - Buy and maintain a strong battery whichever one you decide on. The bike will run like shit if the voltage is low and it may not even start. It is unforgiving when under-volted.

Other thoughts:
1 - Even the non-monobloc Brembo calipers were well up to the job. Our bikes do have monoblocs now and its even better.
2 - The counter-rotating crankshaft shows its best results in quick left to right transitions where it takes much less effort to get the bike swung over. Not a huge difference in normal cornering vs the R6
3 - It is great that the bike revs but when compared to the lower revving Triumph 675R, that comes at a cost in the midrange. So more top end power but midrange is somewhat sacrificed to get there.
4 - Lots of great parts available nowadays vs when we first started running the bike. We ran what was basically a Superstock bike in Supersport and paid the price for that decision. At the time, we didn't even have the race ECU as it was just coming to market. It was vapor-ware on MV's site for a long time.
5 - The major negative for us which also led to us pulling out of racing for the last couple of years was the loss of our engine due to dropping a valve (documented on this site). It wasn't the loss of the engine but rather the factories unwillingness to assist what was then the only team running a F3 at any real level in US Roadracing. We simply couldn't stomach the costs to repair with zero guarantee that the motor wouldn't drop another valve in the first run. It was always a factory defect and we never received any help - not even parts at cost to rebuild our engines but thanks to outside help, we managed to collect up what we needed and after a long hiatus, we are going to put ours back on the track again before the end of the year. Maybe MV will help us this time?

Good luck - beautiful bike with lots of capability. A couple of factory supported bikes in the US would be really helpful to their brand awareness in the USA I believe. MotoAmerica is currently a sea of R6's which is a real bummer.
All very useful, thanks for the info. Having just purchased a F3 675 track bike this is good to know. Thankfully most of the mods you mention have already been carried out. Only ridden it for a couple of laps at Sepang so can't comment too much on the ride-ability at the moment, next track day is October so will see.
 
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