Hi guys, I have been searching for this but did not get to what it looks to be the case.
So, neutral started to be hard to find and lever seems to have a hard pull at stop. It looks like it happens just after riding at low speed (city traffic or low speed streets). With the engine off and engaged, bike is hard to pull with clutch fully engaged. At speed I can find neutral.
It all started when at 4.000 km, I replaced the fluid since it used to be the case with my duc, but did not really worked good. Bike has now 11.800km and apparently it's becoming worse.
Now I bleed the fluid a few times, looked for leaks, got clutch lever to the farthest position and it keeps the same. Others guys that had the F4 locally complained about the same, and the dealer wanted to pull out the clutch and kind of sand something there.
Does it makes any sense?
One thing that might be relevant, is that the F4s in Brazil comes from factory with Motul 5100 (recommended on manual). Given the fact it is not a full synthetic oil, could it cause these sort of problems?
I use the same engine oil in my bike and never had a problem.Sorry,but it sounds like air in the system.Are you using fresh DOT4 brake fluid and what is your method of bleeding?
I think it would be better if that's the case. Let's see after I solve what's going on.
I used fresh Motul 5.1. Method is the one described at the workshop manual, which is open the bleeding nut, pull the lever, close the nut, release the lever and pump it a few times. When it's low on the reservoir, complete with new fluid and continue the procedure.
I had this problem with a VFR400 NC30 it ended up being the clutch, it eventually expired (started slipping). I used to have to switch the bike off to put it in neutral.
I replaced the friction plates and the gearbox felt a million times better afterwards.
The dealer told that to my mate that have similar problem, but since he had only a few kms, they ended removing and sanding it, at least that's what they told him.
His bike has only done 11,000kms,unless it has been abused,I can't see it being the clutch plates,maybe there is a broken clutch spring causing the problem.I might be time to strip and investigate.Just thinking.
You are right, too low mileage for this kind of problems (bike was far from being abused). What makes me think is that the only two guys that I know that have F4s here had the same with low mileage.
I'm wondering if that's usual on the F4s, or only usual to the brazilians F4s (that's the reason for the oil concerns).
I had the same problem and symptoms on my 2012 F4 at about 3,000 miles on the odometer. The dealership suggested replacing all of the wearable clutch parts. But of course, I knew better :loser:. Clutches don't wear at this rate/mileage unless the clutch is abused. So I had my very mechanically inclined buddy flush the clutch with new high grade DOT 4 brake fluid (sorry but I don't remember the brand) and do a thorough bleeding of ALL the clutch bleed fittings (this is where some short cuts may have been taken, causing your symptoms). Some suggest bleeding the fittings top to bottom, but I have no opinion on the technique used. IMHO-The most important thing is to bleed ALL of the fittings. She's been working like a charm ever since.
I had this problem with a VFR400 NC30 it ended up being the clutch, it eventually expired (started slipping). I used to have to switch the bike off to put it in neutral.
I replaced the friction plates and the gearbox felt a million times better afterwards.
His bike has only done 11,000kms,unless it has been abused,I can't see it being the clutch plates,maybe there is a broken clutch spring causing the problem.I might be time to strip and investigate.Just thinking.
I had the same problem and symptoms on my 2012 F4 at about 3,000 miles on the odometer. The dealership suggested replacing all of the wearable clutch parts. But of course, I knew better :loser:. Clutches don't wear at this rate/mileage unless the clutch is abused. So I had my very mechanically inclined buddy flush the clutch with new high grade DOT 4 brake fluid (sorry but I don't remember the brand) and do a thorough bleeding of ALL the clutch bleed fittings (this is where some short cuts may have been taken, causing your symptoms). Some suggest bleeding the fittings top to bottom, but I have no opinion on the technique used. IMHO-The most important thing is to bleed ALL of the fittings. She's been working like a charm ever since.
Hi guys, I have been searching for this but did not get to what it looks to be the case.
So, neutral started to be hard to find and lever seems to have a hard pull at stop. It looks like it happens just after riding at low speed (city traffic or low speed streets). With the engine off and engaged, bike is hard to pull with clutch fully engaged. At speed I can find neutral.
It all started when at 4.000 km, I replaced the fluid since it used to be the case with my duc, but did not really worked good. Bike has now 11.800km and apparently it's becoming worse.
Now I bleed the fluid a few times, looked for leaks, got clutch lever to the farthest position and it keeps the same. Others guys that had the F4 locally complained about the same, and the dealer wanted to pull out the clutch and kind of sand something there.
Does it makes any sense?
One thing that might be relevant, is that the F4s in Brazil comes from factory with Motul 5100 (recommended on manual). Given the fact it is not a full synthetic oil, could it cause these sort of problems?
It really looks like something with the hydraulics. The Duc I had before did exactly the same from time to time and just a regular bleeding used to solve it.
I'm a little late to take the bike to the shop today, so maybe I will just disassemble the slave to clean it and try another bleeding. Let's see and I get to you guys after that.
Guys, just took the bike back from dealer, and after the equivalent of 850 USD for the 12.000km scheduled maintenance, the bike is absolutely the same way it was before.
Now they bleed the clutch fluid (said they did) and I don't know what fluid they used for replacement.
Regarding the clutch problems, was said that they didn't even opened it to take a look and stated the plates must be replaced. And, it's not covered under warranty.
What really makes everything worse is the fact that every F4s here had the same problems, dealer knows about it and just want to charge for plates replacement.
So besides not knowing what the cause is, the point here is to understand if it's usual to all MY2010+ or if it is something with ours Brazilian bikes.
Will keep searching for the cause as it is completely nonsense to the plates have gotten to the end of their lives and dealer will not help at all... Very disappointing...
You are right and I'm fine with it. But the question is how do they know it needs a replacement if they didn't inspect it and if this is the case why it's so common to happen at such a low mileage.
Well, if the hydraulics are working fine there must be a problem in the clutch itself,that would be the dealers theory,and no it is not common for this to happen,that's my opinion.
No Mitch, both bad springs and worn plates will have the clutch slipping under power.
I think something is wrong with slave or master cylinder, the stroke is not pushing the plates far apart enough.
I'm with theknurl, I suspect your clutch hasn't been bled properly...."The only way to know it's done right is to do it yourself"..... an expression that seems fitting for this situation.
My 2011 F4 has just ticked over 10,000km and is suffering the same problem. On mine it's an intermittent problem, sometimes when I stop it doesn't do it other times it does, it does seem to be happening more often now. It's engaged just a little bit, just enough that if you are a flat road and don't have the brakes on you can feel it tugging forward and you have to blip the throttle to get it into neutral.
I have bled the clutch and thought this fixed it for a little while but it came back, I'll bleed it again and see if that helps, other wise I was going to get it looked at on the next service. I have just been putting it into neutral when I stop. Apart from that no slipping or anything when taking off.
if you had a 4 spring pressure plate and a bad spring could make the clutch drag......on a 6 spring I don't think so
BigWill there is also the pushrod adjustment screw in the M/C.....too much play, clutch won't release cleanly
Aprilia RSVRs are famous for hard to find neutral.....until I figured out they have a #70 clutch oil jet in them......you put at #40 in and the problem goes away.....the bigger jet was putting too much oil into the clutch pack, causing the drag:wtf::wtf:
this maybe the same thing.....don't remember any 1st gen complaints
if you had a 4 spring pressure plate and a bad spring could make the clutch drag......on a 6 spring I don't think so
BigWill there is also the pushrod adjustment screw in the M/C.....too much play, clutch won't release cleanly
Aprilia RSVRs are famous for hard to find neutral.....until I figured out they have a #70 clutch oil jet in them......you put at #40 in and the problem goes away.....the bigger jet was putting too much oil into the clutch pack, causing the drag:wtf::wtf:
this maybe the same thing.....don't remember any 1st gen complaints
Guys, just an update. Today I drained all the fluid from clutch lines with a small hose on the slave bleeder and a container on the other end, opened the bleeder screw pumped the lever, took the slave off, including the banjo bolt and let the oil out. Reassembled the slave and got fresh new DOT 4 on the reserveour. Pumped the lever till I get fluid coming out from the slave bleeder. Then the open bleeder, pull clutch, close bleeder release clutch thing a few times.
It looks like it got a little better, but dont think its quite there. For a quick test I adjusted the lever for the nearest position to the bar, started the engine and it felt good until the engine got hot (fans got on a feww times).
Am I missing something on the bleeding here?
On a side note, just realised that loose hose next to the whater pump and wanted to check if that´s the way it should be:
It looks that it comes from another hose under the fuel tank:
If someone could please say something about that I will apreciate.
Yes, I'm now sure that there is no old fluid there, but not so sure there is no air. It is very interesting how the problem only appears when it's very hot.
Bike is a Brazilian 2012 F4 1000R, which means it's the same 2010 F4 you guys have.
Hey guys just to chime in, I have. 2012 f4r and had a similar problem with the false neutral and hard to hit the gears and I assumed it may be plate, oil etc. However since my bike has less that 2k miles on it I knew that didn't make since. I did install some rizoma rear sets and it prompted me to check the adjustments of it after I added a Bazzaz and quick shifter, and changed out the front and rear sprockets and chain. Well low and behold that was the problem. Not enough push and pull to properly engage ever gear correctly. I know it's a simple thing to check but it certainly solved my problem and I had the exact same issues you are experiencing. Just a thought guys. Later,...
Knurl I wasn't referencing to changing gears. Of course you don't need the clutch for that. But he stated hard finding neutral and dragging others gears. Ie the same problem u ha where I couldn't find neutral. Again ever problem is solved with a different solution and mine was pointed at a simple place which was the placement of the rear sets to get good push pull flow.
Thank you for your input. Looked at the gear selector lever and didn't find anything that I could adjust that seems to be related, at least not from the outside.
Anyway, I'm not having problems changing gears. It's only when it is stopped and engaged (and hot) that the gear selector lever is a bit harder and I can't find neutral (goes from first to second and from second to first).
Knurl I wasn't referencing to changing gears. Of course you don't need the clutch for that. But he stated hard finding neutral and dragging others gears. Ie the same problem u ha where I couldn't find neutral. Again ever problem is solved with a different solution and mine was pointed at a simple place which was the placement of the rear sets to get good push pull flow.
Yep that's what mine was doing skipping neutral. But if you already checked then your ok. Just thought I would send that out. As when I called the dealer they were quick to say the plates and I was like yeah right.
Was taking a look at an instructions manual from an aftermarket slave that I got for the duc and it had some tips for bleeding (also says that if you don't do that for living you will probably get air on the system, very funny
So it says to take off the slave, put it into a position that the logo will be facing up, push the piston, bleed the master (if you do not have a bleeder on the master get one), then put the slave back and bleed the slave.
(take care if anyone should try this to protect the parts from leaking as I skipped some of these tips)
I know that Noel posted something very similar somewhere in this forum.
So the thing is that my master banjo bolt does not have the bleeder. Any ideas?
Will a banjo from another part of the bike fit in the master?
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