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Hi guys, I have been searching for this but did not get to what it looks to be the case.

So, neutral started to be hard to find and lever seems to have a hard pull at stop. It looks like it happens just after riding at low speed (city traffic or low speed streets). With the engine off and engaged, bike is hard to pull with clutch fully engaged. At speed I can find neutral.

It all started when at 4.000 km, I replaced the fluid since it used to be the case with my duc, but did not really worked good. Bike has now 11.800km and apparently it's becoming worse.

Now I bleed the fluid a few times, looked for leaks, got clutch lever to the farthest position and it keeps the same. Others guys that had the F4 locally complained about the same, and the dealer wanted to pull out the clutch and kind of sand something there.

Does it makes any sense?

One thing that might be relevant, is that the F4s in Brazil comes from factory with Motul 5100 (recommended on manual). Given the fact it is not a full synthetic oil, could it cause these sort of problems?
 

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I use the same engine oil in my bike and never had a problem.Sorry,but it sounds like air in the system.Are you using fresh DOT4 brake fluid and what is your method of bleeding?
 

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I had this problem with a VFR400 NC30 it ended up being the clutch, it eventually expired (started slipping). I used to have to switch the bike off to put it in neutral.
I replaced the friction plates and the gearbox felt a million times better afterwards.
 

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I had this problem with a VFR400 NC30 it ended up being the clutch, it eventually expired (started slipping). I used to have to switch the bike off to put it in neutral.
I replaced the friction plates and the gearbox felt a million times better afterwards.
His bike has only done 11,000kms,unless it has been abused,I can't see it being the clutch plates,maybe there is a broken clutch spring causing the problem.I might be time to strip and investigate.Just thinking.
 

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I had the same problem and symptoms on my 2012 F4 at about 3,000 miles on the odometer. The dealership suggested replacing all of the wearable clutch parts. But of course, I knew better :loser:. Clutches don't wear at this rate/mileage unless the clutch is abused. So I had my very mechanically inclined buddy flush the clutch with new high grade DOT 4 brake fluid (sorry but I don't remember the brand) and do a thorough bleeding of ALL the clutch bleed fittings (this is where some short cuts may have been taken, causing your symptoms). Some suggest bleeding the fittings top to bottom, but I have no opinion on the technique used. IMHO-The most important thing is to bleed ALL of the fittings. She's been working like a charm ever since.

Good luck.

Hi guys, I have been searching for this but did not get to what it looks to be the case.

So, neutral started to be hard to find and lever seems to have a hard pull at stop. It looks like it happens just after riding at low speed (city traffic or low speed streets). With the engine off and engaged, bike is hard to pull with clutch fully engaged. At speed I can find neutral.

It all started when at 4.000 km, I replaced the fluid since it used to be the case with my duc, but did not really worked good. Bike has now 11.800km and apparently it's becoming worse.

Now I bleed the fluid a few times, looked for leaks, got clutch lever to the farthest position and it keeps the same. Others guys that had the F4 locally complained about the same, and the dealer wanted to pull out the clutch and kind of sand something there.

Does it makes any sense?

One thing that might be relevant, is that the F4s in Brazil comes from factory with Motul 5100 (recommended on manual). Given the fact it is not a full synthetic oil, could it cause these sort of problems?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I use the same engine oil in my bike and never had a problem.Sorry,but it sounds like air in the system.Are you using fresh DOT4 brake fluid and what is your method of bleeding?
I think it would be better if that's the case. Let's see after I solve what's going on.

I used fresh Motul 5.1. Method is the one described at the workshop manual, which is open the bleeding nut, pull the lever, close the nut, release the lever and pump it a few times. When it's low on the reservoir, complete with new fluid and continue the procedure.


I had this problem with a VFR400 NC30 it ended up being the clutch, it eventually expired (started slipping). I used to have to switch the bike off to put it in neutral.
I replaced the friction plates and the gearbox felt a million times better afterwards.
The dealer told that to my mate that have similar problem, but since he had only a few kms, they ended removing and sanding it, at least that's what they told him.

His bike has only done 11,000kms,unless it has been abused,I can't see it being the clutch plates,maybe there is a broken clutch spring causing the problem.I might be time to strip and investigate.Just thinking.
You are right, too low mileage for this kind of problems (bike was far from being abused). What makes me think is that the only two guys that I know that have F4s here had the same with low mileage.

I'm wondering if that's usual on the F4s, or only usual to the brazilians F4s (that's the reason for the oil concerns).

Motul 5100 as standard form factory, I've never seen that in any MV manual, please share and what weight are you using 10W40 ?
I don't remember the spec, but it is for sure the 5100. Will take a picture from the manual and share for you guys.


I had the same problem and symptoms on my 2012 F4 at about 3,000 miles on the odometer. The dealership suggested replacing all of the wearable clutch parts. But of course, I knew better :loser:. Clutches don't wear at this rate/mileage unless the clutch is abused. So I had my very mechanically inclined buddy flush the clutch with new high grade DOT 4 brake fluid (sorry but I don't remember the brand) and do a thorough bleeding of ALL the clutch bleed fittings (this is where some short cuts may have been taken, causing your symptoms). Some suggest bleeding the fittings top to bottom, but I have no opinion on the technique used. IMHO-The most important thing is to bleed ALL of the fittings. She's been working like a charm ever since.

Good luck.
Thanks, just so I can have it clear, you did nothing with the plates right? Just changed and cleaned the hydraulics?

Will take the bike to the dealer tomorrow and let them have a look...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
It really looks like something with the hydraulics. The Duc I had before did exactly the same from time to time and just a regular bleeding used to solve it.

I'm a little late to take the bike to the shop today, so maybe I will just disassemble the slave to clean it and try another bleeding. Let's see and I get to you guys after that.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Motul 5100 as standard form factory, I've never seen that in any MV manual, please share and what weight are you using 10W40 ?

Hi Donsy, it's a 15w50 Motul 5100. I was trying to upload a pic of the manual, but receive a error message.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Guys, just took the bike back from dealer, and after the equivalent of 850 USD for the 12.000km scheduled maintenance, the bike is absolutely the same way it was before.

Now they bleed the clutch fluid (said they did) and I don't know what fluid they used for replacement.

Regarding the clutch problems, was said that they didn't even opened it to take a look and stated the plates must be replaced. And, it's not covered under warranty.

What really makes everything worse is the fact that every F4s here had the same problems, dealer knows about it and just want to charge for plates replacement.

So besides not knowing what the cause is, the point here is to understand if it's usual to all MY2010+ or if it is something with ours Brazilian bikes.

Will keep searching for the cause as it is completely nonsense to the plates have gotten to the end of their lives and dealer will not help at all... Very disappointing...
 

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Yes I am sure disc pads and clutch friction discs are not covered under warranty due to wear.All manufactures have the same policy unfortunately.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Yes I am sure disc pads and clutch friction discs are not covered under warranty due to wear.All manufactures have the same policy unfortunately.

You are right and I'm fine with it. But the question is how do they know it needs a replacement if they didn't inspect it and if this is the case why it's so common to happen at such a low mileage.
 

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Well, if the hydraulics are working fine there must be a problem in the clutch itself,that would be the dealers theory,and no it is not common for this to happen,that's my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Well, if the hydraulics are working fine there must be a problem in the clutch itself,that would be the dealers theory,and no it is not common for this to happen,that's my opinion.

I do agree it must not be common, but the fact is it happened with all F4s round here that got to this mileage.

Will let you know if I find something.
 

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Also with your problem it seems more like bad clutch springs rather than clutch plates worn,otherwise the clutch would be slipping.
 

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Also with your problem it seems more like bad clutch springs rather than clutch plates worn,otherwise the clutch would be slipping.
No Mitch, both bad springs and worn plates will have the clutch slipping under power.
I think something is wrong with slave or master cylinder, the stroke is not pushing the plates far apart enough.
 

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No Mitch, both bad springs and worn plates will have the clutch slipping under power.
I think something is wrong with slave or master cylinder, the stroke is not pushing the plates far apart enough.
Donsy what if it has a broken spring/springs that would cause bad disengagement of the clutch wouldn't it.Just thinking other causes if the hydraulics are OK.
 

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Donsy what if it has a broken spring/springs that would cause bad disengagement of the clutch wouldn't it.Just thinking other causes if the hydraulics are OK.
Mitch, on this bike clutch, when you pull the lever, the push rod lift's the plates away from each other, putting tension on the springs, if the springs or a spring was broken, there would be less tension on the plates and the clutch would slip easier under normal riding. Remember the springs are there to push the plates together.
Now if the bike is switches off, and the OP is trying to push the bike in gear, by just pulling the clutch lever, then those plates are not separating enough to disengage the motor from the gearbox.
 
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