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Discussion Starter #1
ok, I am joining the 525 drive chain using a standard soft link,

I have a decent tool to do this " Motion Pro"

The rivetting question is this :) how much do I peen the chain pin over ?

Is there a dimension increase at the peen I should be looking for ?

tia

joe
 

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Joe, doestn't the Motion Pro tool stop at the correct "squish"?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Joe, doestn't the Motion Pro tool stop at the correct "squish"?
I don't know Chuck. I was under the impression that if you keep turning the screw the rivetting end goes further and creates a larger peen.

Where is a blacksmith when we need one !

joe
 

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that tool is probably similar to the DID tool I've been using for years. On that tool you can't compress it too much, the way the pin tool is machined it's not possible. On my tool you basically tighten it til it won't go anymore, then your done, the key is for the rivet tool to be centered when you do it. I've done a bunch of chains without issue.
video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isWYsAnZ4jQ


I don't know Chuck. I was under the impression that if you keep turning the screw the rivetting end goes further and creates a larger peen.

Where is a blacksmith when we need one !

joe
 

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It should be an anvil peen, Joe. It should also have a positive stp...mine is a DID though.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Hi Chuck,

I did some investigations and found a Motion Pro Youtube and then I referred back to the instructions with the Motion Pro Tool.

There are two main operations to fit the soft link. First is the pressing together of the soft link side plates.

To do this correctly you should vernier gauge the chain's other links across the side plates and note the span dimension. I did a few to get a good average. Then when you press the plates together using the motion pro tool you should go so far and then stop and measure...If more squeeze is required then you add a little more with the tool. This negates getting a stiff link ; )

The second phase is the peening of the two soft link rivets.

The motion pro tool does have an anvil but there is a range of peening available before you hit the stop.

The amount of peen required ( according to Motion Pro instructions ) is seldom more than 0.028 inch ..or 28 thou to the ancients... This is a tiny amount of peen ...

The important thing here is again to use the other rivets on the chain as a reference and measure them with the vernier. This will give you the amount to peen. There is also I am sure a specified unpeened to peened diameter increase for the chain link size...I used the other rivets as my reference as the Motion Pro man said so !
As a guide it is seldom required to do more than one full turn of the key to acheive the correct peen diameter. So you know if from the initial bottoming out of the tool to do about half a turn and then check and then a little bit more and check again.

It is a common misconception to think it necessary to mushroom out the rivet head significantly..Nope..less is more.
I am sure a tech who has been doing this all his life will smile at my measured methodology..but without a real feel for it I reason best to be careful as I don't want the fooker flying off anytime. People would say ....

Look what he D I D !!!

joe

ps I DID it my way
 

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So, to recount, if I understand:

The problem with your Peen is

That it must be measured against others for length and girth.
Those measurements must be visually checked against examples whose peen is of nice mushroom heads.


When those comparisons are made, then you must manipulate yours until your Peen is the same as the others, because length and girth and mushroom are the true measures of how good your Peen is.....:smoking:
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
So, to recount, if I understand:

The problem with your Peen is

That it must be measured against others for length and girth.
Those measurements must be visually checked against examples whose peen is of nice mushroom heads.


When those comparisons are made, then you must manipulate yours until your Peen is the same as the others, because length and girth and mushroom are the true measures of how good your Peen is.....:smoking:
Next project ride height ...Preload good....

You Americans ! Good one Chuck.. : )
 

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Joe,I havn't bought a chain for awhile,but the last endless chain I installed had a piece of wire shapped like a M,so that wire goes underneath the outer plate while you are riveting the pins.The piece of wire allows for the correct spacing during the riveting process,when finished you pull the piece of wire out and the link cannot be too tight.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks Mitchy ..That's useful..I have already done it and the plates are ok not to tight...It is a bit of a black art but once I started measuring things I felt confident that I wasn't butchering it..

joe
 

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wow, you guys have really made this complicated! My DID tool, break the chain to correct length, chain on sprockets, hold together, rivet link joining the ends, peen one pin, then peen other pin, all told takes about 15 minutes, I've done half dozen or more chains like this with never an issue.
 

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I don't use one of those 'chain tools'...never have.
For years ., to remove the 'excess' amount of links I simply buff the 'mushrooms' of the chain pins at the appropriate length with a 4'' grinder and thin stainless steel cutting disc until completely flush with the outer plate.

The outer plate then prises off and the remainder of the link (with buffed off pins heads) then pushes out.

To join the chain with a 'soft link' I assemble the chain on the bike ...fit the 'soft link' ..0 rings ..,outer plate etc. Then hold a 2lb hammer 'behind' the link pin and 'peen' the outer face of each soft link pins with a lighter hammer.
15 minute job.

Never had a problem...,been doing it this way for years.., but each to his own...you do need a 'feel for it' though.
Brian.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I don't use one of those 'chain tools'...never have.
For years ., to remove the 'excess' amount of links I simply buff the 'mushrooms' of the chain pins at the appropriate length with a 4'' grinder and thin stainless steel cutting disc until completely flush with the outer plate.

The outer plate then prises off and the remainder of the link (with buffed off pins heads) then pushes out.

To join the chain with a 'soft link' I assemble the chain on the bike ...fit the 'soft link' ..0 rings ..,outer plate etc. Then hold a 2lb hammer 'behind' the link pin and 'peen' the outer face of each soft link pins with a lighter hammer.
15 minute job.

Never had a problem...,been doing it this way for years.., but each to his own...you do need a 'feel for it' though.
Brian.
I did it that way on the Jota Brian.. and no probs...used a ball pein hammer..that round end is designed for the job.

But for the MV I wanted to use the tool..There's nothing complicated about checking the squeeze on the side plates using a vernier..and given the tiny amount of peening required then there is nothing wrong with measuring that either.
Without a bit of practice the most likely scenario is an over peened pin due to anxiety about making sure ..

joe
 

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Discussion Starter #14
wow, you guys have really made this complicated! My DID tool, break the chain to correct length, chain on sprockets, hold together, rivet link joining the ends, peen one pin, then peen other pin, all told takes about 15 minutes, I've done half dozen or more chains like this with never an issue.
I take your point but it isn't complicated ..It takes longer to relate in a post than to do. Its a simple operation but nonetheless critical to get right..

joe
 

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I don't use one of those 'chain tools'...never have.
For years ., to remove the 'excess' amount of links I simply buff the 'mushrooms' of the chain pins at the appropriate length with a 4'' grinder and thin stainless steel cutting disc until completely flush with the outer plate.

The outer plate then prises off and the remainder of the link (with buffed off pins heads) then pushes out.

To join the chain with a 'soft link' I assemble the chain on the bike ...fit the 'soft link' ..0 rings ..,outer plate etc. Then hold a 2lb hammer 'behind' the link pin and 'peen' the outer face of each soft link pins with a lighter hammer.
15 minute job.

Never had a problem...,been doing it this way for years.., but each to his own...you do need a 'feel for it' though.
Brian.
Same way I do it Brian. I wouldn't be too concerned about it Joe, as long as the link isn't stiff and the pins have visibly spread, you will be fine. In 20+ years I spent in the bike trade, I never heard of a rivet link coming apart, and i'm sure there would have been plenty of 'peens' out there doing a shoddy job of it.:)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I don't use one of those 'chain tools'...never have.
For years ., to remove the 'excess' amount of links I simply buff the 'mushrooms' of the chain pins at the appropriate length with a 4'' grinder and thin stainless steel cutting disc until completely flush with the outer plate.

The outer plate then prises off and the remainder of the link (with buffed off pins heads) then pushes out.

To join the chain with a 'soft link' I assemble the chain on the bike ...fit the 'soft link' ..0 rings ..,outer plate etc. Then hold a 2lb hammer 'behind' the link pin and 'peen' the outer face of each soft link pins with a lighter hammer.
15 minute job.

Never had a problem...,been doing it this way for years.., but each to his own...you do need a 'feel for it' though.
Brian.

Brian, I know that each and every one of your chain rivets will have an MV logo engraved into it...:naughty:
 

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Joe,I havn't bought a chain for awhile,but the last endless chain I installed had a piece of wire shapped like a M,so that wire goes underneath the outer plate while you are riveting the pins.The piece of wire allows for the correct spacing during the riveting process,when finished you pull the piece of wire out and the link cannot be too tight.
+1

the last time i pulled the gear box and had to cut the chain open and closing, i did have a similar M shaped wire from the OEM linking.
 
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