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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
What are we seeing regarding horsepower and torque from these Lovely Naked Rides we've chosen? :naughty:

Just curious to know the world wide Brutale WOWs

All Bragging Welcome (Can we out-power some F4s)
 

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hears mine red standard and blue with mods.this is at the wheel.these runs were done on dynojet uk's own dyno so i would say its 100% accurate as the do alot of work for race teams.


 

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whats the air box mod?
do not do it,because it will now stuff up your dyno tune,and I reckon if you pull out the rubber surrounds from the air intakes it will let water in and screw your motor.below the rubber intakes are draining holes for a reason.and the rubber intakes are at 90 deg to the air filter for a purpose.
cheers eddy
 

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do not do it,because it will now stuff up your dyno tune,and I reckon if you pull out the rubber surrounds from the air intakes it will let water in and screw your motor.below the rubber intakes are draining holes for a reason.and the rubber intakes are at 90 deg to the air filter for a purpose.
cheers eddy

cheers,i will bear this in mind but i never ride in the rain and i can go back to dynojet for a tweek.i just wondered what the mod is.
 

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Dave

Had a turbo placed on his and was putting out 200 hp at the rear wheel.
 

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hears mine red standard and blue with mods.this is at the wheel.these runs were done on dynojet uk's own dyno so i would say its 100% accurate as the do alot of work for race teams.



Ok first i would like this clear that i'm only commenting on the dyno run posted and nothing else.

If the red run is before then how have you managed to lose, at a guess, 8 ish bhp in the mid range?

Look at the dip you now have in the torque curve?

Is that definitley after mapping with a PCV? Shakey power delivery as well.

Attached is a run from a 1078 before and after a Microtec fitting.

will post up the 1090 when i copy it over to this computer.


Edit: Now added the 1090 runs. :)
 

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i know what you mean,this is why ive asked the question about the dip in the runs on all mv's ive seen.with my run the dip is there before and after the mods its just moved up from 3100rpm to 4500rpm.in the torque curve it dose the same moves from 3000rpm to 4500rpm ive seen this on a few power runs for mv's and not just brutale's f4's too.im no mapping expert but would have liked to have seen no dip.obviously the microtec has alot more control so this is why your runs are smoother.your before run has the dip so im guessing you need control of the ignition to remove this.the proof for me will be in the ride and with an inch of snow on the floor here it wont be this week.
 

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i know what you mean,this is why ive asked the question about the dip in the runs on all mv's ive seen.with my run the dip is there before and after the mods its just moved up from 3100rpm to 4500rpm.in the torque curve it dose the same moves from 3000rpm to 4500rpm ive seen this on a few power runs for mv's and not just brutale's f4's too.im no mapping expert but would have liked to have seen no dip.obviously the microtec has alot more control so this is why your runs are smoother.your before run has the dip so im guessing you need control of the ignition to remove this.the proof for me will be in the ride and with an inch of snow on the floor here it wont be this week.

Yeah but your bike didn't have the dip before so why is it there now?

It's got nothing to do with access to ignition timing as the bike was ok beforehand.

the only thing it might be is the race ECU mapping which imo is shit, you fitted one of those didn't you? If that ignition mapping at that point is worse then your hands are tied....to make a hole like that takes some pretty crap ignition timing tbh.

Also the huge void in peak power looks odd to me. They are a little weird when it comes to peak power as the cams in these bikes are as soft as a soft thing but even still that is a very odd dip in power at 10,500 rpm

But also it kind of proves a lot of what i have been trying to say to people.

Personally i wouldn't be happy with that either from a customer point of veiw or from the dyno centre point of veiw.

Sorry to sound like i'm picking holes but i'd really not be happy there.
 

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Yeah but your bike didn't have the dip before so why is it there now?

It's got nothing to do with access to ignition timing as the bike was ok beforehand.

the only thing it might be is the race ECU mapping which imo is shit, you fitted one of those didn't you? If that ignition mapping at that point is worse then your hands are tied....to make a hole like that takes some pretty crap ignition timing tbh.

Also the huge void in peak power looks odd to me. They are a little weird when it comes to peak power as the cams in these bikes are as soft as a soft thing but even still that is a very odd dip in power at 10,500 rpm

But also it kind of proves a lot of what i have been trying to say to people.

Personally i wouldn't be happy with that either from a customer point of veiw or from the dyno centre point of veiw.

Sorry to sound like i'm picking holes but i'd really not be happy there.

i see what your saying but the dip is there before between 3000rpm and 4200rpm not quite as big a dip but still 4-5 hp.yes i did have the race ecu fit too as advised by a few on this site and as im new to mv's thought it was the thing to do.i will contact dynojet tomorrow and have a chat to see what they think.luckly its not cost me anything so far so im not out of pocket.race ecu was £150 but i can shift that on if i go another route.i paid for the qs (£252.00) as that was a different job but not the pcv or fitting/mapping.really i need to get it out on the road to see what i rides like in the real world,the whole point of this exercise was to fit the quick shifter and i have one so job done so far.


edit.just looking at your before runs there are dips in the runs at the same place as mine admittedly not quit as big but there still there....
 

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i see what your saying but the dip is there before between 3000rpm and 4200rpm not quite as big a dip but still 4-5 hp.yes i did have the race ecu fit too as advised by a few on this site and as im new to mv's thought it was the thing to do.i will contact dynojet tomorrow and have a chat to see what they think.luckly its not cost me anything so far so im not out of pocket.race ecu was £150 but i can shift that on if i go another route.i paid for the qs (£252.00) as that was a different job but not the pcv or fitting/mapping.really i need to get it out on the road to see what i rides like in the real world,the whole point of this exercise was to fit the quick shifter and i have one so job done so far.


edit.just looking at your before runs there are dips in the runs at the same place as mine admittedly not quit as big but there still there....

Look at your graphs again. You have said that teh red is before and the blue is after.

The bike had no dip at all before you had any work done and now has that huge hole starting at 4.5 and ending at 6krpm. That is not a dip that is a massive hole.

I'm not on about those smaller areas at 3krpm etc i am simply referring to that grand canyon sized hole in the power delivery that will influence how the bike rides.

I appreciate you're new to MV etc but from my point of veiw i constantly give advice on this subject and have seen in the region of 60 MV's of all types just for dyno work and sold easily as many ECU's on top of that. Yet here i am still trying to explain why you haven't got what you wanted which is almost exactly what i said would happen, although i didn't expect it to be for this sort of thing tbh.

Now imagine you had paid good money for that?

Yes our stuff is expensive, never argued that point but it does deliver every time.

I'm not trying to pick an argument specifically with you at all but it is a convenient vehicle for me to once again try to prove my point.

Believe me if other tuning routes worked i would use them but the only one that gives me the results i and customers need is the Microtec.

If there is a logical explanation for that HUGE dip then fair enough but i would be very interested to know.

Like i said nothing personal at all.

:)
 

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Look at your graphs again. You have said that teh red is before and the blue is after.

The bike had no dip at all before you had any work done and now has that huge hole starting at 4.5 and ending at 6krpm. That is not a dip that is a massive hole.

I'm not on about those smaller areas at 3krpm etc i am simply referring to that grand canyon sized hole in the power delivery that will influence how the bike rides.

I appreciate you're new to MV etc but from my point of veiw i constantly give advice on this subject and have seen in the region of 60 MV's of all types just for dyno work and sold easily as many ECU's on top of that. Yet here i am still trying to explain why you haven't got what you wanted which is almost exactly what i said would happen, although i didn't expect it to be for this sort of thing tbh.

Now imagine you had paid good money for that?

Yes our stuff is expensive, never argued that point but it does deliver every time.

I'm not trying to pick an argument specifically with you at all but it is a convenient vehicle for me to once again try to prove my point.

Believe me if other tuning routes worked i would use them but the only one that gives me the results i and customers need is the Microtec.

If there is a logical explanation for that HUGE dip then fair enough but i would be very interested to know.

Like i said nothing personal at all.

:)

lol.i feel your not understanding what im trying to explain/ask.imagine theres no second run forget the blue line.why is there a dip on the red line.On the torque curve and the power run there are dips and i see these on many mv runs.what causes them?.thats what im after.now look at the second runs both torque and power runs have similar but yes slightly bigger and slightly futher up the rpm but the same dips.if someone can explain them on the standard run that might help with working out what to do on the second run.
i see on the mapping you have done on the maps you put up the dips were there before(and yes not so big or as far up the rpm but still there) and gone once mapped.what did you have to do to remove them?

Remember im not after any power increase just a quickshifter and if my power had gone down a few bhp this would not have bothered me,if it was about power i would have kept my 189bhp gixer.

please dont think im getting worked up by this and i dont take things like this conversation personally but unless i ask questions i wont understand or learn.
Back to the microtec,is there a quickshifter avaliable for it yet if not its compleatly out of the picture to me as i might as well keep the bike standard.

edit.i will call dynojet to see if they know whats happened as far as the dip goes and report back tomorrow.
 

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lol.i feel your not understanding what im trying to explain/ask.imagine theres no second run forget the blue line.why is there a dip on the red line.

On the torque curve and the power run there are dips and i see these on many mv runs.what causes them?.thats what im after..
Those smaller dips will be down to fuelling and probably cams. Generally speaking if there are certain engine characteristics that remain after tuning work then these are simply that, characteristics of the engine design or exhaust fitted.

You need to make a major change to flow to remove something that remains after a bike has been tuned and they haven't be pulled out with ignition or fuelling.

now look at the second runs both torque and power runs have similar but yes slightly bigger and slightly futher up the rpm but the same dips.if someone can explain them on the standard run that might help with working out what to do on the second run.
Like i said they could be down to fuelling (an AFR curve would identify that) or engine characteristics. The fact they have been removed in your after run would indicate fuelling was to blame. The fact that you've seen them on other MV's would suggest that it is also a characteristic of the engine design to a degree.

That dip in the mid range is not slightly bigger. It's gigantic! I don't understand how you aren't concerned about that dip slap bang in thee middle of the most used area on a bike yet are asking questions on the lower ones. Yes low down stuff is equally as important but sometimes you can't totally flatten a power curve cos the engine design just won't allow it.

i see on the mapping you have done on the maps you put up the dips were there before(and yes not so big or as far up the rpm but still there) and gone once mapped.what did you have to do to remove them?
I mapped the bike and did the ignition curve but in all honesty that ignition curve i put in is not far off of stock and not even that "tuned" really.

The fact that your bike DID NOT have that dip before is the single most important thing in this entire debate. The dip or massive hole as it should be called has put roughly an 8% LOSS in power delivery and around 10% LOSS in torque.

Remember im not after any power increase just a quickshifter and if my power had gone down a few bhp this would not have bothered me,if it was about power i would have kept my 189bhp gixer.
Absolutely and that is why i am questioning that hole. That isn't at peak revs, it's right where you want good smooth drive. You say you aren't intersted in peak power yet that's one off the only places you have gained and even that looks odd.

Look at the torque curve, now imagine that power delivery on a cold, damp shitty road. Which do you think is more likely to cause the rear wheel to spin out on you?

Your bike now will feel faster than it was due to the hole putting a lull in the power delivery before it hits a "powerband" But your bike in std trim would actually still be faster and easier to ride.

please dont think im getting worked up by this and i dont take things like this conversation personally but unless i ask questions i wont understand or learn.
Back to the microtec,is there a quickshifter avaliable for it yet if not its compleatly out of the picture to me as i might as well keep the bike standard.

edit.i will call dynojet to see if they know whats happened as far as the dip goes and report back tomorrow.
Working on the shifter. It works great but you don't need it, you could plug what you have in to the Microtec and that would control it easily.

I will happily try and explain things but imagine how you would feel if this was a fully paid job.

£320 odd for the PCV
£150 Race ECU (very good price)
£150? mapping.

£620 and imo it's worse than when you started. For me it's a gr4eat demonstration of what i am trying to say to peope all the time about spending x amount and not geting what you want and then having to spend more to resolve it or taking everything off and throwing the towel in.

You only need ask one question. Why is there a dip in the power delivery at 5krpm when there wasn't before hand?
 

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cheers,i will be asking the question tomorrow.i will also ask if they have the power run graph from just the pcv without the mods,which they should have and this might answer weather it the race ecu causing the dip.im more intrested in getting rid of the torque dip which dose actually drop lower during the run.so from what youve said the quickshifter can be controlled by the microtec?
 

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cheers,i will be asking the question tomorrow.i will also ask if they have the power run graph from just the pcv without the mods,which they should have and this might answer weather it the race ecu causing the dip.im more intrested in getting rid of the torque dip which dose actually drop lower during the run.so from what youve said the quickshifter can be controlled by the microtec?

Yes if they have the curve from PCV and std ECU then that will give you all the answers i would say.

yes we just plug the shifter into the ECU and away you go. :)
 
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