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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone!


I have a 2006 Brutale 910S with only ~9600km on the meter. It has suddenly stopped firing on cylinder 2+3 and the oil level increases to high levels.

I'm sorry for this wall of text, but I thought it might be good to try to give a complete picture of my brief experience with the bike. Im a bit mechanically challanged so I do not know what is relevant or not...

Background

More or less; since I bought the bike I've had a occational low rpm stalling issue which occured very rarely. Having only driven the bike about 1200km since I bought it, I notice a stain on the exhaust pipe, right infront of the cylinder furthest to the left. At a closer inspection I see that the source of the Oil/fuel/liquid came from under the exhaust manifold from said cylinder and sprayed on to the exhaust pipe. Not much, but visible.

Fearing it might be engine oil I checked the oil level. To my big suprise the oil window was completely covered! I drained the oil and refilled it to between the Min - Max marks. Ran it a minute or so and then added a bit more oil to keep it between the Min - Max.

I drove the bike home, which was about 50km and let it rest in the garage. Up to this point, the bike was running "clean", except for the occational stall at a red light. *Note* a friend did point out to me, just the day before, that he thought my exhaust fumes smelled like fuel.

A couple of days later I decided to take the bike to a repair shop and have it looked at. The bike had not been ridden since the last time. Starting it up I notice the bike is behaving strange; It is running uneven and the idle had dropped to around 1100 rpm struggling! Checking the oil level again and it was filled to the top of the glas!
I again drained the oil and put in only 3l of oil (by the measurment at the side of the oil container), which was strangely enough to reach the Max mark?!

I had to take it to the repair shop so I took to the road. It was weak, running uneven, ignited un-spent fuel in the exhaust a couple of times, and every time I released the throttle it died. No distinct smoke (white or blueish) has been visible in the exhaust fumes.

The mechanics initial diagnosis was that cylinder 2+3 was misfiring.

The mechanic concluded that all plugs gives a spark and the spark plugs are wet. He measured the output on all 4 spark plug cables and they all had the same output. (tested with new spark plugs and the old) He switched the cables around with the same result.

In regards to the increasing oil level he is going to perform a compression test to rule out broken piston rings. But he had had a small suspicion this was not the case, since the top of the pistons looked good/normal and without any trace of engine oil or unusual wear or residue. Perhaps fuel pressure if the compression is not at fault.

The mechanic also noted that the water coolant level was low.

If he should rule out any bad compression; do you guys have any idea what it might be, or have been in a similar situation?

I am very concerned as to why the oil level was/is increasing - it must be a leak somewhere? I'm assuming it is fuel since the oil was dark brown/black when I drained it? The drained oil did smell fuel-ish.

Thank you for your time! I appriciate any help, input or recommendations you can give!​
 

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Cylinders 2 and 3 fire off the same ignition coil. You can test for good ignition by measuring the primary peak voltage of the coil (looking at a spark in open atmosphere is NOT a good test). Expect the primary peak voltage to be around 80~100 volts (need a peak voltage reading meter to measure this).

Swapping the coils will eliminate a bad coil (problem moves to 1 and 4), but does not eliminate bad ECM or wiring connection to the 2~3 coil.

The technician should do both compression AND leak down. I think you are losing spark.

Either way, the oil level is going up from unburned fuel washing past the rings.
 

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Same problem Nick is having on his F4, fuel pressure regulator ? Fuel running into engine when bikes parked up ?

Does the oil smell like it has fuel in it when you drained it?
 

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This could be a multitude of things, but before the mechanic bills time for comp/leak tests have them test the fpr. A fuel pressure regulator on the way out can do all kinds of odd things to a bike and a lot of what you are describing are things i've seen with a bum fpr. This part is cheap to replace and easy to check for proper function. If all checks out then you know its not that and you haven't really spent much of anything in the way of billed hours looking into it.


If you can get some pics of the the leak you spoke of that i'd like to see what you are referring to. Might not be related but doesn't hurt to have a look.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thank you guys! I am very grateful for your replies!

I just woke up and I'm late for work, but I will try and answer all your questions ASAP
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Based upon what you are describing, I would be very surprised if it's not rings.
I really hope not, but it might one of the causes of the fuel in the oil... :(

Cylinders 2 and 3 fire off the same ignition coil. You can test for good ignition by measuring the primary peak voltage of the coil (looking at a spark in open atmosphere is NOT a good test). Expect the primary peak voltage to be around 80~100 volts (need a peak voltage reading meter to measure this).

Swapping the coils will eliminate a bad coil (problem moves to 1 and 4), but does not eliminate bad ECM or wiring connection to the 2~3 coil.

The technician should do both compression AND leak down. I think you are losing spark.

Either way, the oil level is going up from unburned fuel washing past the rings.
Thanks for the input esq'z me! I do not know how the output was measured, but I will ask the technician. When you say bad ECM = Bad ECU?

If unburnt fuel is washed past the pistons, is it a certainty that my rings are crap?

Same problem Nick is having on his F4, fuel pressure regulator ? Fuel running into engine when bikes parked up ?

Does the oil smell like it has fuel in it when you drained it?
This could be a multitude of things, but before the mechanic bills time for comp/leak tests have them test the fpr. A fuel pressure regulator on the way out can do all kinds of odd things to a bike and a lot of what you are describing are things i've seen with a bum fpr. This part is cheap to replace and easy to check for proper function. If all checks out then you know its not that and you haven't really spent much of anything in the way of billed hours looking into it.


If you can get some pics of the the leak you spoke of that i'd like to see what you are referring to. Might not be related but doesn't hurt to have a look.
I will certainly have a look at the fuel pressure regulator! Thanks for this tip! (It's that thing under the fuel pump with a small metal pipe in it?)

The oil did smell like fuel when I drained it. If the levels however increased when it was parked I don't Know...

How does one check the proper function of this part?

Pictures of the external leak when I first saw it:





 

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The fuel pressure regulator and fuel pump are within your fuel tank.
 

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The regulator would affect all cylinders, not just 2. May contribute to the fuel in oil symptom.....but you need to diagnose the loss of power on the 2 ~ 3 cylinders first, as that is the most likely cause of the secondary symptom of rising oil level.

The external leak is likely unrelated and something else entirely.
 

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The regulator would affect all cylinders, not just 2. May contribute to the fuel in oil symptom.....but you need to diagnose the loss of power on the 2 ~ 3 cylinders first, as that is the most likely cause of the secondary symptom of rising oil level.

The external leak is likely unrelated and something else entirely.


That's assuming the 2/3 mis-fire is a correct diagnosis. From the description laid out in the op it doesn't seem very clear as all wires responded with the same spark. The mech. checked with new plugs and all were wet again. This tells me he is getting to much fuel in the cylinders thus wetting/fouling the plugs. Through experience this tends to be a fpr issue. Especially since the owner says its hardly ridden. Plus the description of the way the bike ran up to the point we're at now is also very indicative of an fpr going bad.

Unfortunately for the owner the fpr is in the tank and not on the fuel rail like a normal sane person would set up a fuel system. I think the tank needs to come off to get to the plugs, so if that is the case then checking the fpr is not to much out of the way in the whole scope of fixing the bike.


The oil leak you see looks to be the inner rubber coil seal is letting oil get past it. This oil drains down through a port in the coil passage and that is what you see coming out onto the engine. Looks like you'll need to get the valve cover gasket done, unless Agusta just sells the coil o-rings(for lack of better term)


While it may not be related........can some other folks on here think of any reason why oil leaking into the coil passage might cause the main issue? Likely not, but never hurts to ask.



Oh, and all used oil will have a faint smell of fuel in it. One has to get right down on it, like within a few inches, to get a wiff though. If you can smell fuel from a good 12-24 inches away from the drained oil that is abnormal.
 

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I will certainly have a look at the fuel pressure regulator! Thanks for this tip! (It's that thing under the fuel pump with a small metal pipe in it?)

The oil did smell like fuel when I drained it. If the levels however increased when it was parked I don't Know...

How does one check the proper function of this part?

Pictures of the external leak when I first saw it:







Way to keep a nice clean engine. Most are dirty and cruddy like nobodies business. I addressed some of your questions in the other post, but regarding oil level rising after shut off.

Are you certain it was only after shutting the bike off? From the way one described it in the op i get the feeling it might not be the case. Each time you measure the oil lever are you running the bike up to temp. before checking the oil on a level surface? If one puts oil in the bike at a satisfactory level when warm......it will be higher if checked again when cold. Not saying you aren't getting fuel in the oil, as the strong smell you described would indicate, just wondering if the combination of adding fuel when running and shutting off the bike and checking it later once the oil is drained back into the pan and cooled if the combo of that makes you think you are adding fuel after shut off.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Firstly, I would like to thank all of you again for your time and efforts!

In regards to how much I could smell the fuel in the spent oil; I would say it was distinct, but not overwhelming.

When I drained the bike the first and second time it was cool.

The first time I refilled it was a bit under the middle. Then I ran the engine for a minute and topped it off to the middle. After that I rode the bike home very calmly. 50km highway. During this trip I could feel nothing strange with the performance or the health of the bike.

I then parked it in the garage where it would sit until I drove it to the repair shop.

The only thing I did with it in the garage was to test the free 16M diagnostics tool published on this site, to see if I could read any error codes. It involved turning on the ignition a few times, but I was never able to use the software more than a couple of seconds before reaching a time out so I gave up. After the test I started the engine and it was running seemingly fine at an idle of 1200rpm.

At the day I planned to bring the bike to the repair shop (to investigate the external leak and the high oil level) I first went to the local petrol station to put in a couple of litres of fuel. This was the moment I noticed the bike suddenly started behaving erratically as described in the OP.

I had a petrol station clerk help me check the oil level while I was sitting on the bike after it had cooled for a while. She said it covered the whole glass.

I drove the bike back to the garage (about ~700m). Got a lift to the nearest bike shop and bought new oil.

The second time I drained it, the engine was also cool. I let it drain until there was only the occational single drop. This oil also smelled like fuel.

I refilled it again with only 3l of oil. Ran it a half minute to let the oil settle down. When I checket the level it was close to the max mark?!

I then drove it to the repair shop - a ~10km ride (horrible experience)

Later I spoke to the mechanic on the phone and he told me the oil level covered the whole glas once again.
 

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Pretty sure you have a faulty fuel pressure regulator.It is easily checked with a vacuum pump as pictured.If it is the fault they cost $374.00 as quoted by another forum member.

41ZR4KBYaUL__AA160_.jpg
 

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Hmmmm....yes, oil in the plug well could be causing the cylinder misfire. Definitely not a good thing to soak your spark plug leads in oil.
 

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Yes,part number 19 is correct.Would you trust a used regulator on eBay.Have you checked yet that your regulator is faulty.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Yes,part number 19 is correct.Would you trust a used regulator on eBay.Have you checked yet that your regulator is faulty.
Thanks mitchy!

No it has not been confirmed yet. It's for my own reference so I now what part you guys are talking about.

I wouldn't say I'll trust a used part from ebay. I would go further and say my trust in used "good condition/low milage" items in general have dropped since I bought the Brutale :)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hi guys, a quick updade and question.

I got the word yesterday from my mechanic that the compression is good. He will now move on to measure the fuel system and check the external leak when he has the time. He has also ordered a Magneti Marelli diag software and cables.

[...]The oil leak you see looks to be the inner rubber coil seal is letting oil get past it. This oil drains down through a port in the coil passage and that is what you see coming out onto the engine. Looks like you'll need to get the valve cover gasket done, unless Agusta just sells the coil o-rings(for lack of better term)
[...]
I might be posting a seriously stupid question here - What is a rubber coil seal? Item 15 and 24? http://www.startwintrading.com/en/model/brutale/brutale_910/oem/595

Thaks again!
 

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Can't really make out the numbers in the diagram, but I think that's them ....24 and 25 anyway. The normal o-rings are under the cam journals (15?).
 
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