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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Greetings,

I have been lurking reading all I can on the Brutale models. I currently have a 2007 910R with 252 original miles. I am second owner. I have been working on motorcycles for several years as being retired allows me the time. I know that the worst thing is to let them sit and you can imagine this bike sat most of it's life. As far as I can tell nothing has been done other than oil changes. All stock.

The issue I'm having is a stall, just flattens out at 4000 to 4600 rpm. I would like to think it was a fuel issue but given the small range I'm thinking otherwise. The fuel filter is stock I believe. XL 145. The gas looked/smelled a little old. I topped off with high test and sea foam. I'm pretty sure it's been 3 or more months since fuel was put in it. (Saw bike in June, bought in August, rode two days ago)

Symptoms:

1) Motor just falls flat at 4000 to 4600 rpm when giving it throttle.

2) At 4000 rpm with a steady throttle it is fine.

3) If you downshift and the rpm is above 4600 rpm it's fine. Below accelerating toward 4000 rpm it falls flat at 4000 rpm and won't run smooth or go past that point. (anywhere else is fine)

4) There is no popping or back firing. Sounds like there is just no fuel.

Thoughts:

1) Dirty injectors. (seems odd)

2) Fuel filter.

3) Bad gas.

4) Plugs. (seems odd)

5) Electrical issue in fuel system. TPS comes to mind.

So, with the help of this forum I'm looking for direction, thoughts and ideas. I'm not a super electrical guy but could probably figure it out. Well, hopefully figure it out. No dealers close to me and nobody I really trust to do the work.

Disappointing to say the least but hoping for a fix. Thanks in advance.

tt
 

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There are much more knowledgeable people here who will surely offer help but since you have no other responses yet, I'm thinking of the secondary air pump. I believe it is for emissions purposes. It puts air from the airbox into the exhaust to effect emissions readings which (I think) are monitored in that rpm range. It doesn't directly affect fuel/air ratio as it passes air through the head into the exhaust but perhaps affects the lambda sensor causing a change in fueling. It is below the tank on top of the valve cover mounted on the trellis frame. You could see if the electrical plug is connected and hoses are connected and in good condition.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you for the reply.

Everything looks fine but I'm thinking I best start removing side tank panels and other items to get a good look. Can't really see under the tank.

Behind the coolant reservoir is a four (4) prong plug and the diagnostic plug. Looks fine. I could be looking at the wrong thing also. Nothing along the frame that I can see.

Given the mileage and condition it must have had this problem from day one. Seems odd it would "just appear".

I would like to add that "I was told" the tank was coated although it really doesn't look it. If that was the case then "In GOD we trust, everything else we check".

Like I said it just falls flat at exactly that rpm range. No more, no less.

tt
 

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You definitely can't assume everything is in order. I had several bolts fall out on mine when it was new as have others. Diagonostics is a brainteaser with these bikes. You might as well get the diagnostic software from Techno Research cause you can't do much without it. The first things to do are throttle body sinc and TPS reset. The software is required for TPS reset and you will surely need it at some point if you plan to keep the bike. I wouldn't assume valve adjustment is correct either.

You'll have to remove the tank and airbox to see anything. you could check the throttle cables and linkage while your there.

Can you duplicate the problem without riding, on the side stand?

If you don't mind wrenching, it's worth the hassle. I had a thrilling 26,000 miles out of mine before I had to learn all this stuff. When you get it sorted hit Oatman Road mid-week at sunrise. That's when you'll fall in love with it.
 

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The secondary air pump is mounted to the inside of the trellis frame on the left side. If you remove the silver cover on the left side that says "liquid level" in Italian you will be able to see the air pump. You'll have to remove the tank and airbox to really get to it though.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Agusta 17, will do.

I tried your idea of running the bike in a front stand. (not on side stand)

When motor is cold you can't adjust throttle. Dies. Leave it warm for a bit then you can.

I let the bike warm up to 185 degrees. The idle "hunted" between 1000 and 1300 through the whole process. Even increasing throttle the bike still hunted when it fell back to idle.

Next, I ran it up through the 4000 rpm and a little beyond. No falling flat what so ever. The idle still "hunted".

When I rode the bike the idle did not hunt but under load at 4000 rpm falls flat as stated.

When stationary it's fine other than the hunting.

I would like to run another fresh tank through the bike. It's defiantly wishful thinking. As far as software I hate to spend the money. Not on the software so much as my old laptop doesn't have the memory the program requires.

I'm not real happy but hoping for a cure.

tt
 

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Might worth checking the fuel pump hoses inside the fuel tank. Those are prone to fail due to ethanol from gas fuel. If the hoses are rotten, you're experiencing a fuel pressure loss, and the only way you can see that is by taking the fuel pump out of the tank. And if you do that, you better replace them along with the fuel filter and that will be one of Brutale's issues solved.

Cheers,
Laur.

P.S. The bike looks great!:brutale:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Might worth checking the fuel pump hoses inside the fuel tank. Those are prone to fail due to ethanol from gas fuel. If the hoses are rotten, you're experiencing a fuel pressure loss, and the only way you can see that is by taking the fuel pump out of the tank. And if you do that, you better replace them along with the fuel filter and that will be one of Brutale's issues solved.

Cheers,
Laur.

P.S. The bike looks great!:brutale:
Thanks for the compliment. Would look better if it ran right huh?

Yeah, I think that is on the agenda. I'll have to look for a supplier for fuel filter and O rings.

tt
 

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Well, I think the look would be the same, but for sure the feeling would be great!

The fuel filter is not hard to find and the fuel pump o-rings should be fine.
 

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There are much more knowledgeable people here who will surely offer help but since you have no other responses yet, I'm thinking of the secondary air pump. I believe it is for emissions purposes. It puts air from the airbox into the exhaust to effect emissions readings which (I think) are monitored in that rpm range. It doesn't directly affect fuel/air ratio as it passes air through the head into the exhaust but perhaps affects the lambda sensor causing a change in fueling. It is below the tank on top of the valve cover mounted on the trellis frame. You could see if the electrical plug is connected and hoses are connected and in good condition.
Euro2 bikes don't have the second air system.....and it has zero affect on running anyway. Lambda O2 sensor is on Euro3 bikes (2008 910R in US).

Sounds to me like your TPS needs to be set. You have the 16M ECU....check out Merc07's software thread. You can download it from him, buy a cable to hook up your laptop, and reset the TPS.

May also want to adjust idle fuel trim....download the service manual from Donsy's site.

Fuel hoses would not cause your symptom, nor would dirty injectors. Lumpy, poor idle and flat spot points toward the TPS and possibly throttle body synch.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Thank you for the direction.

Went for a short blast just now and the idle does not hunt and the bike seems to "get through" the stumble sometimes. Sometimes is the key word here. Had a stumble at 3800 rpm today.

Appreciate the help everyone. I live in the middle of no where so I'm on my own at this point. I'll grab the software you mention. As far as TPS it's hard to believe given the mileage of the bike but yes, a possibility for sure. Could of been off since day one.

tt
 

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Euro2 bikes don't have the second air system.....and it has zero affect on running anyway. Lambda O2 sensor is on Euro3 bikes (2008 910R in US).

Sounds to me like your TPS needs to be set. You have the 16M ECU....check out Merc07's software thread. You can download it from him, buy a cable to hook up your laptop, and reset the TPS.

May also want to adjust idle fuel trim....download the service manual from Donsy's site.

Fuel hoses would not cause your symptom, nor would dirty injectors. Lumpy, poor idle and flat spot points toward the TPS and possibly throttle body synch.
Oops, once again I should have left it for you. Can I get away with blaming it on poor memory again?
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Today I decided to hold off until I can run most of the fuel out of it. I'm still leaning towards bad fuel before doing anything major. Running a mixture of new with old now then I will go a gallon at a time to see what happens. Better? Worse? Same?

It just does not run smooth. Some rpm's yes, others no. Like it's all over the place. Hard to start also. Takes a bit and you can't touch the throttle when cranking.

I also have to let it warm up before taking off and it sputters then, wanting to die. My neighbor was across the street and said he could smell the fuel. Stale if you will.

Given what was said in my first post this fuel has been in there for a very long time. Open up the fuel cap and whoa, what a smell.

I am not giving up so your replies have been noted. Contacted merc07 also. Just want to start at square one and go from there.

Regards and Thank You.

tt
 

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Siphon that old fuel out and get a full tank of fresh....you aren't doing your engine any favors with rotten gas. Carbon and varnish deposits on valves, etc. Just dump it !!!
 

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?

toytuff;

replace the fuel lines in the tank (the book says every 3 years)

the pressurized line is spec SAE J30R10 sold by the foot at the auto parts store...you need less than a foot

the fuel filter is a WIX #33012

the plate O-rings come from McMaster/Carr #9452K197

order some Quick disconnect O-rings too #9262K141


here's where things come from;
http://www.mvagustauk.net/forum/showthread.php?19-sources-and-tips/page2
 

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Click-R clamps require special pliers. The fuel filter hose is infamous for popping off the pump and stopping the engine. A worm screw type clamp is a good upgrade there.
The vent and drain hoses can use any clamp you like (no pressure in them), but come with Click-R on pump base and screw type at filler cap.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Click-R clamps require special pliers. The fuel filter hose is infamous for popping off the pump and stopping the engine. A worm screw type clamp is a good upgrade there.
The vent and drain hoses can use any clamp you like (no pressure in them), but come with Click-R on pump base and screw type at filler cap.
Thank you. Took advice and went to Tractor Supply. In the camping section they have a siphon pump for $3.00. Works very well.

I sucked about a gallon of old and new mixture out. Put a little in a jar for viewing. Bottom of tank looks great.

tt
 

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Looks a little brown?....bet it smells pretty bad, too.
Plastic tank, so it better look good!
 
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