MV Agusta Forum banner
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
875 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Trying to find out what the differences are between a normal B3 and B3 RR engine.
I sourced a replacement engine for my TV but need to know if it will work. Clutch shouldn't be a problem ECU shouldn't either.

Owner says the engine comes from a 2016 B3 RR. Though this one has a black rocker cover instead of a red one.
B31 AG 17983

I can't seem to possitively find out if the RR model uses different camshafts. The online parts list says it's the same but looking at it from a different point of view they are different. Could be due to differences in model year.

If the crankshafts are the same then it should not be a problem to only use 3 injectors instead of 6 injectors. I'll just use a B3 ROM and be done with it. If they are different then i might get myself in a lot of trouble and i'd rather pass on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Trying to find out what the differences are between a normal B3 and B3 RR engine.
I sourced a replacement engine for my TV but need to know if it will work. Clutch shouldn't be a problem ECU shouldn't either.

Owner says the engine comes from a 2016 B3 RR. Though this one has a black rocker cover instead of a red one.
B31 AG 17983

I can't seem to possitively find out if the RR model uses different camshafts. The online parts list says it's the same but looking at it from a different point of view they are different. Could be due to differences in model year.

If the crankshafts are the same then it should not be a problem to only use 3 injectors instead of 6 injectors. I'll just use a B3 ROM and be done with it. If they are different then i might get myself in a lot of trouble and i'd rather pass on it.
You probably want to add the extra injectors, It might run lean at top end otherwise. You can Flash the 800rr rom form ECU Studio for piece of mind. The rr top end will be a blast on your TV :]
Best of Luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
875 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
You probably want to add the extra injectors, It might run lean at top end otherwise. You can Flash the 800rr rom form ECU Studio for piece of mind. The rr top end will be a blast on your TV :]
Best of Luck!
Would require a different airbox and extra room for the injectors. Zero chance of succes, but wpuld be a blast.
If the cams of the RR are the same as a normal B3 then fueling wouldn't be a problem. Only with different cams things can get messy. I would need a completely custom ROM, probably B3 ROM with ignition timing of an RR. Too much hassle.
 

·
Old Wing Nut
Joined
·
22,680 Posts
If the part numbers are the same then the cams are the same.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
875 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ok, i'm pretty sure what my mistake was.

I was comparing a 2016RR with a 2016 non RR. It so happens the 2016 non RR is a detuned engine with only 116bhp and new cams. I needed to compare it with a 2015 engine. The camshafts are the same on these models.

I should be good to go. 🤞 Frankenstein 2015 MV Turismo Veloce with a 2016 RR engine, 2015 B3 ROM and hydraulic clutch. Up 15hp on paper but the dyno runs of my old B3 would suggest more like up 25hp.
Will need custom mapping because of different airbox and exhaust headers.

Good times, bad bank balance
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
875 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
486282

It's a 2016 LH44 RR.

There is no easy way to get a hydraulic clutch slave on there. I ordered the Rivale Clutch levers and belongings. The Rivale and Turismo Veloce share the same handguards.

Truely Frankenstein. 🤭 But hey, if it works
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
875 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
She's running on the stock TV ROM. I would have thought she wouldn't run or run very rough. Mechanic sayd she ran just fine. Looking at the ignition timing there is not so much of a difference.

Finished the custom ROM today thanks to the guys from ECU Studio.
Hopefully running like a dream this time tomorrow.

One thing i did not foresee was the shifter. It's now a reversed shift pattern. (GP-Shift)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
875 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Another day, another problem solved.

I was having issues with the reverse shift drum and the bike not understanding which gear it was in. (2-N-1-6-5-4-3) Decided to go down the electronics route since it's the cheapest solution.

Built a proof of concept with a Arduino and digital potentiometer. I'm reading the output voltage of the sensor and adjust the voltage from the ECU with the digipot.
487966


Final product would look something like this. Total costs of components around 15 dollars. Still have to design and build a circuit board.
487967
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
875 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Everything is working again. Had some issues with my potentiometer working lineair in my test rig but logarithmic while attached to the bike. Took her for a test ride and QS, Blipper and gear selection is working again.

Time to visit the dyno and be done with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Everything is working again. Had some issues with my potentiometer working lineair in my test rig but logarithmic while attached to the bike. Took her for a test ride and QS, Blipper and gear selection is working again.

Time to visit the dyno and be done with it.
wow, great progress. love to see the bike with new transplant.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
875 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
wow, great progress. love to see the bike with new transplant.
Looks as it should have been from the factory. Including the little Brutale heritage. 😂

Dyno booked on the 30th of August. My old B3 did about 130rwhp. I think this has a little bit less power, 125rwhp would be nice.
Might get custom headers and upgrade the throttle bodies with a bigger one next year.

488273


488274


488275
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
875 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Another day another issue. 😭 I'm getting a bit tired.

488495

She doesn't want to go past a good 10k-ish RPM. The ignition advance drops and goes up causing the jagged lines.
There is also a drop between 9k and 10k. The throttle actualy closes to about 60% with WOT.

At first i thougt it was knocking because of the lean condition. But more fuel didn't solve the issue.

Fueling is quite good down low, don't forget this is a bit of a Frankenstein. Causing me to believe this is not fueling related.

My thought is a missing table because the issues starts where the TV engine rev limiter kicks in. As seen below.
488496

It's missing a bit of torque compared to the TV. But actually feels a lot faster.

488497

My old stock B3 did a lot better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
636 Posts
Do you also have the RR injectors? I'm not sure if there is a second one that kicks in at higher revs....
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lacsap

·
Registered
Joined
·
875 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Do you also have the RR injectors? I'm not sure if there is a second one that kicks in at higher revs....
I run the normal Brutale mappings on a TV ROM. I'll be doing a street run with logging enabled tomorrow.
My current log file is missing MAF/MAP values. I can see the throttle holding back between 9k RPM and 10k RPM and ignition advance dropping at around 10k RPM. Throttle actualy closes from 98% to 60% in a fraction of a second.

Cool technology but troubleshooting van be difficult. 😉
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
875 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
488506

Reverting fueling back to Brutale stock fueling and reattaching the air intake scoops.

Did a run in 2nd and 3th.
It is still lagging between 9k RPM and 10k RPM but no funny readings in the log. Manifold pressure, ignition advance and throttle position all stable.

Only thing that's a bit weird is engine load. Mapping only goes as far as 69.9NM but calculated load is as high as 77NM.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
875 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
A slight success today. Playing with the fueling had no effect. Issue remains.
Then in a final f*CK it moment i decided to upload a Brutale ROM. Earlier i only copied the different mappings of the B3 to a TV ROM.

Whole different machine. Throws all kinds of errors but silky smooth and only a hint of the 9k RPM issue i was having.
This leads me to believe there are still some mappings i don't have access to causing issues.
I also checked different sensors but they all apear to be used across the 3cyl range.

I'm getting a bit scared by now. I have no control over this. I want my mommie. 😂
 

·
Old Wing Nut
Joined
·
22,680 Posts
Configuration settings are separate from fuel mapping....
I think that is what you fixed when you uploaded the entire ROM. Things like how the ECU handles temperature compensation, what it does with gear position, what happens with road speed (ram air affect), etc etc etc

Anyway...don't give up. Consider your aggravations as tuition in the school of advanced EFI technology.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lacsap

·
Registered
Joined
·
875 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hurray!

She goes like a Brutale now, absolutely bonkers.
A little snappy at low RPM's, looks like an enviromental tuny thingy. Nothing we can't tune out of there.

I've uploaded the Brutale ROM with some settings altered. Fueling is bone stock Brutale.
Now i have proof the engine and electronics are sound. The problem is in the TV ROM with Brutale mappings.

Time to try and make a new ROM since this one disables ABS, TC and tilt over sensor.
Hopefully better luck this time around. 🤞
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top