MV Agusta Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Finally did my first long weekend ride on the Dragster. Bike was outstanding, especially with the newest software. The idle has been raised and it no longer stalls coming to a stop.

However, I did use a lot of 4th-5th-6th gears during the trip and found that the bike's shifting from 5th to 6th is very poor.

- Found 'false neutral' on several occassions where I clutch in, engage sixth, release the clutch but the bike revs as if it's in neutral. Clutch in, kick it again and it engages the 2nd time. Very disconcerting.

- It is frequently very notchy and sticky when going from 5th to 6th, especially at low revs. The gear lever moves in what feels like a two step click-click, as opposed to the smooth 1 step click that it does going into all other gears.

- Clutchless upshifts using the quickshifter makes this problem go away but the upshift is noticeably more jerky than the 3rd to 4th or 4th to 5th clutchless upshift. Those ones are seamless where as the 5th to 6th shift comes with a jerk.

If I am very deliberate with the 5th to 6th upshift it doesn't happen, but it still often feels very notchy and unwilling to go into 6th smoothly. It feels like a two step click-click, where the 2nd click takes a lot of effort pushing with my toes to jam it in there. I know it's not a Honda gearbox which are always flawless, but it shouldn't take this much effort going into 6th gear.

I found an older thread concerning the same problem on the Brutale 750. It's here:

http://www.mvagusta.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20712

Could the 800s be experiencing the same issues?

Is anyone else noticing this with their Brutale and Dragster 800s??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
639 Posts
I've had this a couple times, its a rider error.
Adjusting your shifting lever will fix this.
Or push the shifting lever with a firm "kick" ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,605 Posts
Agreed on the shift lever! Makes a HUGE difference on the shifting action on this bike.

I've got 2 pairs of riding boots, the one pair is half a size bigger and with the hinge setup. It doesn't quite fit as good as the smaller pair under the shift lever. I've got a notchy gearbox only when using the larger boots confirming that the lever position plays a major role in how smooth your gear shifts will be.

Also make sure your clutch is adjusted properly. For me, I prefer it on the tight side rather than with too much free play.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,150 Posts
I've had this happen on my B4 as well. I agree as already stated usually caused by me shifting lazy.


Just curious, how many miles are on the Dragster?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
I've had this a couple times, its a rider error.
Adjusting your shifting lever will fix this.
Or push the shifting lever with a firm "kick" ;)
I have to disagree that it's rider error. It's also interesting that after claiming rider error the suggestion is a mechanical change to the bike that will fix the issue....

This is my 11th motorcycle and the first one I've ever had with false neutral issues. I haven't had any of the stalling issues, but I do have issues with false neutrals. I've adjusted my shift lever several times and am still have false neutral problems. Again, I've never had any issues on any of my previous 10 bikes and 100k plus mileage. I'm not too good to miss a shift now and again, but the bike has a clear mechanical issue that is more than rider error.

I thought about getting an F3 to replace my current track bike, but the gear box is so bad I'm scared to do it. It's one thing to have a spotty gear box on the street, but on the track it's too risky. I love the bike, but this gear box is simply not good enough.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
742 Posts
If you're getting a F3 for the track then get yourself a rear set with reverse shift. I had false neutrals all the time, mainly because i'm a bit big for the bike. Now with the Bonamici rear set, shifting is superb. The linkage is also far more direct, every movement of the pedal results in movement of the gear shaft. With the original set there is some play.

I really like the gearbox, true racing style gearbox. I can now feel it's in, just like with my old Moto Morini.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
560 Posts
I wouldnt say rider error so much as how terribly adjusted the rearsets come from the factory. I get false neutrals all the time unless I give the lever a solid kick. If you drop the lever down a bit you should be able to get more movement with significantly less effort.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I've had this happen on my B4 as well. I agree as already stated usually caused by me shifting lazy.


Just curious, how many miles are on the Dragster?
Clutch is adjusted fine with minimal free play, and if it was the clutch I would have issues with all other gears, not just 5th to 6th.

The first thing I did when I got the bike was adjust the lever lower. I have smaller feel (size 7.5) and it was too high from the factory. It`s in the right position now.

I have 2500 miles on the Dragster. Only noticed it this past weekend, but this is the first time I`ve taken it on a long spirited ride.

I think my annoyance with it is that even if I pull in the clutch and give it a very exaggerated push upward, it doesn`t always go in nicely. It`s so notchy and resistant frequently. Other times it`s Ok.

Let me ask this... if you are accelerating moderately and use the quick shifter at 7krpm, is your clutchless upshift silky smooth or jerky? Mine is silkly smooth from 3-4 and 4-5 but the 5-6 upshift comes with a jerk.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
If you're getting a F3 for the track then get yourself a rear set with reverse shift. I had false neutrals all the time, mainly because i'm a bit big for the bike. Now with the Bonamici rear set, shifting is superb. The linkage is also far more direct, every movement of the pedal results in movement of the gear shaft. With the original set there is some play.

I really like the gearbox, true racing style gearbox. I can now feel it's in, just like with my old Moto Morini.
Given the performance of the B3 I'm probably not going to get an F3 for the track. I don't trust it enough for track use.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
560 Posts
Let me ask this... if you are accelerating moderately and use the quick shifter at 7krpm, is your clutchless upshift silky smooth or jerky? Mine is silkly smooth from 3-4 and 4-5 but the 5-6 upshift comes with a jerk.
I've found that the jerkyness of my quickshifts is pretty random. I've had the best success when in sport mode. I dont know if it has to do with the throttle sensitivity or the engine response but if I try and use it in normal or rain it almost always has a bit of a jerk. Oddly enough, however, I found that I almost always have seamless 5-6 quickshifts regardless of acceleration (even with no acceleration and constant throttle) or engine mode. I have found that if I upshift and let my toe essentially slip off of the shifter that its almost always smooth. I can consistently get jerky shifts if I keep my toe on the shifter for the whole up and down movement. My guess is that my the time I fall back down into the middle position the engine has dropped too many rpm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I've found that the jerkyness of my quickshifts is pretty random. I've had the best success when in sport mode. I dont know if it has to do with the throttle sensitivity or the engine response but if I try and use it in normal or rain it almost always has a bit of a jerk. Oddly enough, however, I found that I almost always have seamless 5-6 quickshifts regardless of acceleration (even with no acceleration and constant throttle) or engine mode. I have found that if I upshift and let my toe essentially slip off of the shifter that its almost always smooth. I can consistently get jerky shifts if I keep my toe on the shifter for the whole up and down movement. My guess is that my the time I fall back down into the middle position the engine has dropped too many rpm.
I agree with you. Quickshifts work best when you 'flick' the lever and don't maintain pressure on the lever as it completes its shift.

As for the false neutral problem, I found a response on an Aprilia forum that sounds pretty reasonable.

False neutrals in the higher gears are not unique to aprilia's. It happens with all motorcycle brands.

Anatomy of a False Neutral

Missed shifts or "false neutrals" are fairly common even if the transmission is in perfect condition. Assuming there are no damaged parts in the transmission, false neutrals are the result of incomplete shifts. It is easy to get into the habit of pulling the clutch, stabbing at the shift lever, and then releasing the clutch. This leads to false neutrals.

Sometimes when you shift, the gear dogs don't line up but meet end to end. When this happens the gear lever travel stops at that point. When you fully release the clutch the gears start to move at different speeds and then the dogs line up and normally engage. If you still have your foot applying pressure to the lever you can feel this happen as the lever moves through the last half of its travel. When this occurs and there is no pressure on the gear lever, sudden throttle application can spin the drive gear so fast that there is not enough time for it to engage the driven gear. This is what is going on when you get a false neutral.

A foolproof method to prevent false neutrals (upshift and downshift) is to maintain pressure on the shift lever until the clutch is fully engaged. This allows the sliding gear dogs to fully engage when they don't meet up in the correct position. With pressure on the gear lever you will feel it move again through the second half of the travel when the dogs do line up. Maintaining pressure on the shift lever as you release the clutch provides the force to fully engage the gears as they begin to take up the load from the engine. Give it a try. You have to make a conscious effort to do this with every shift. You will not be convinced of the efficacy of this technique until it balks and you feel the shift lever move through the second half of its travel as you release the clutch.

False neutrals occur most often in the higher gears because the speed difference of the engaging gear dogs is less in the higher gears.

If you are shifting without the clutch, sometimes there is not enough time for the gears to engage before the load is applied and a false neutral results. Sometimes the gears will partially engage and hold the load but then jump back out into the false neutral. If you think that this does no damage to the forks and dogs you are fooling your self. If you insist on riding this way you should look into a quick shift kit. These systems kill the engine momentarily allowing full gear engagement.
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?259235-False-neutral-between-5th-and-6th-Does-it-get-better-with-use-age&p=3229236&viewfull=1#post3229236

I guess the trick is to maintain pressure on the lever until the clutch is fully engaged. This is for shifts where you DO use the clutch. I'll try it out. Mine is exactly the problem he describes. Between 5th and 6th the lever feels like it's moving halfway and doesn't fully engage. Funny, I've had many different motorcycles before and this is the first bike where I've experienced this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
560 Posts
What map are you usually running in? I just went to custom on my way home today (sport/fast everything. Throttle normal) and I didnt have any false neutrals and all my quickshifts were silky smooth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
What map are you usually running in? I just went to custom on my way home today (sport/fast everything. Throttle normal) and I didnt have any false neutrals and all my quickshifts were silky smooth.
What rpms and what throttle opening are you doing your QS in?

I have the same map as you. Custom with sport /fast everything except normal throttle. They are mostly smooth shifts except for 5-6 which has a jerk.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
560 Posts
It varies. Its definitely not as smooth when under 7500 unless youre really on the throttle. I quickshift from 1-2 at 3000 with ease daily though (gotta keep the neighbors happy). 90% of the time I'm shifting around the 6500-8000 range with the throttle barely open and hardly, if even, rolling on.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
22,070 Posts
Adjust you foot peg and or gear lever for comfortable and firm shifting, quick shifters work better, higher up in the revs in general. Change with a firm motion, then release, do not keep pressure on the gear lever.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top