MV Agusta Forum banner

1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello Everyone!!
I guess It's the end for my Annalisa (Brutale 800RR 2015....)
Last night at around 6k RPM a big rattle and cloud of smoke...Pulled it the clutch lever and turn off the key and tried and stayed on the bike swirling...( Thank God I was going slow).
There is a hole in the crankcase by piston rod 2 (Didn't take a pic yet, it was dark and was very upset) so here in New York and perhaps anywhere at 125$ an hour, thinking of fixing it it's pure madness.
I did a whole valve tuning service 500 miles ago ( a week ago, 28,000 Miles) .
My question to you all is:
What could have caused all of this? Is it possible to assume they did an improper job to the valves?
My guess is that either a valve or a spring broke but I don't know if it could brake the crankcase. Can It travel that far and do that kind of damage? In about 2 hours (9am here...) I will call my mechanic at Rockwell Cycles which by the way is considered the best for Mv's in the tristate area and see if any solutions might be available for me.
Thank you for your friendly input and suggestions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
787 Posts
Wow! Pics needed to see. But only 500 miles since valve clearance job? The only way to diagnose is to rip her open I think. Sorry for your bike.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Wow! Pics needed to see. But only 500 miles since valve clearance job? The only way to diagnose is to rip her open I think. Sorry for your bike.
If they will charge me to diagnose it, fuggetaboutit!! And maybe I should be present?
What would you do in my shoes?
Do I have any legal leverage? Perhaps to have a third party mechanic to open the engine and see?
Thank you
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
19,518 Posts
Hole in crankcase is more likely related to a connecting rod, not a valve. Have a close look and post some photos.

The dealer will have time (= money) invested if they have to do any disassembly to determine failure, so expect a charge to make a full repair estimate and definitive cause of failure......

But a hole in the crankcase may only require visual inspection to get an idea and with that a decision whether to proceed with tear down or start the search for a junk yard engine from a totaled bike.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
Hole in crankcase is more likely related to a connecting rod, not a valve. Have a close look and post some photos.

The dealer will have time (= money) invested if they have to do any disassembly to determine failure, so expect a charge to make a full repair estimate and definitive cause of failure......

But a hole in the crankcase may only require visual inspection to get an idea and with that a decision whether to proceed with tear down or start the search for a junk yard engine from a totaled bike.

Fully agree, I cant see a likely route that the cause can be due to the valve check / adjustment that they did. Valve or damage to piston top / bore, yes, con rod no.

And a garage as said should be paid for their time, although again as said its pretty obvious if the case has a hole, which might in its self be enough to say its too expensive to replace.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,915 Posts
Does insurance cover this type of thing? Doubtful. If it did I would ask the adjuster to total it and then buy it back, Take out the motor and install a 1078 :oops:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
787 Posts
Fully agree, I cant see a likely route that the cause can be due to the valve check / adjustment that they did. Valve or damage to piston top / bore, yes, con rod no.

And a garage as said should be paid for their time, although again as said its pretty obvious if the case has a hole, which might in its self be enough to say its too expensive to replace.
Would be great if the OP posted PICS of damage...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
840 Posts
Does insurance cover this type of thing? Doubtful. If it did I would ask the adjuster to total it and then buy it back, Take out the motor and install a 1078 :oops:
A 1078 engine would not enter in the frame of a Brutale 800RR (3 cylinders)... Just sayin' :-D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
Insurance will cover it if you are willing to get towed into a wall so you have had an accident.

Many bikes crashed at brandshatch used to be left in a ditch at the side of the road with a few bits laying around. I dunno officer a dog ran out and i swerved to avoid it. ☹

Clearly i would not suggest fraud, this is just what i have observed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Fully agree, I cant see a likely route that the cause can be due to the valve check / adjustment that they did. Valve or damage to piston top / bore, yes, con rod no.

And a garage as said should be paid for their time, although again as said its pretty obvious if the case has a hole, which might in its self be enough to say its too expensive to replace.
I don't want to believe that in 2020 we still have CON ROD braking down on a street bike!!!??? It is a fatal serious issue!!!! I could be dead and Mv has to be held responsible for that....
The garage was/is nice enough for actually don't charge me. I told them, I don't want to spend another dollar on this bike...They say if con rod was the problem, I'll PROBABLY have a new engine coming my way or a big discount on a new bike. That's the relationship between myself, my garage and hopefully, Mv.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Hole in crankcase is more likely related to a connecting rod, not a valve. Have a close look and post some photos.

The dealer will have time (= money) invested if they have to do any disassembly to determine failure, so expect a charge to make a full repair estimate and definitive cause of failure......

But a hole in the crankcase may only require visual inspection to get an idea and with that a decision whether to proceed with tear down or start the search for a junk yard engine from a totaled bike.
Hello!
I would like to reply to your helpful comment.
As I replied to another member con rod failure is not acceptable nowadays and engine makers are held accountable for it (That's what I thought and been told). Thank you anyway
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
840 Posts
Hello!
I would like to reply to your helpful comment.
As I replied to another member con rod failure is not acceptable nowadays and engine makers are held accountable for it (That's what I thought and been told). Thank you anyway
There could be many cause for a connecting rod failure. Among them, a bearing failure is very often the cause (in some case the bearing itself, in some others a lubrification issue being the source of the bearing issue).

Now that being said, at mid and high RPMs, a connecting ord can break by its own weight : in late 1990 early 2000, Triumph had issues with the 955i Daytona (1997-2001) engine with many left cylinder connecting rod failure (and always the left cylinder). There was many case I'm aware of in France (it is likely the same in other countries). The root cause was not actually the connecting rod initially: Those bikes were among the first injected engines. When the bike felt, engine was not stopping as there was at that time no lean sensor (they started to mount them on 2002 engines). The issue happened for the bike which felt on the left side. Engine did not stop. At the end of the crankshaft on the left side, there was the oil pump, and a vent connected to the air box to avoid overpressure. When the bike was on the ground on the left with engine running, oil was going into the airbox. Then you use the emergency stop to stop the engine before putting the bike back on its wheels. At that time, oil was going all on the left of the airbox, and when you tried to start the bike, oil would go inside the aire flow and in the cylinder. As oil is not a compressible liquid, when you tried to start the bike, the piston was not moving and the connecting rod was bent. It did not broke at that time but between 1000 to 6000 kms (or more) later, because the bent connecting rod was not properly balanced and it always finished by a failure if you did not unmount and replace it after it was bent. My bike felt, and as I was aware of the issue, took action to replace the left connecting rod and claimed for warranty: the response of Triumph I received few months later was "Bikes are not designed to fell, and a fall is not in our usage terms"... That being said, the first guy I know who had the issue with Triumph got many hours of analysis and work to get the understanding of what happened. He never got any reimboursement for anything from Triumph (maybe it would have been different in North America as class action is possible there)...

Anycase, good luck! As said: there could be many reasons for a connecting rod to fail, and most are not the quality of the said part.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
19,518 Posts
Hello!
I would like to reply to your helpful comment.
As I replied to another member con rod failure is not acceptable nowadays and engine makers are held accountable for it (That's what I thought and been told). Thank you anyway
Uhhhh.... Things happen !!

ZX14 Kawasakis are well known to lose con-rods. I have a friend in California that has had 2 !!!! And yet he bought another (he likes them).
There were a batch of MV Agusta F4 1000's that threw rods a few years back.

In my career in the motorcycle industry I have seen con-rods coming out of crankcases on more than a few brands and models. Sometimes the manufacturer helps with repairs...sometimes not....it is dependent upon many factors including maintenance, use, history and age.

I am surprised your shop is tearing down the top end without looking into that hole first. I would have flipped the engine over and lifted the bottom crankcase half if the problem wasn't obvious without disassembly.

Regardless....keep us informed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter #17 (Edited by Moderator)
Do you have pictures?
Hello Everyone!!
I have an update on what happened to my bike. BOTH Exhaust valves dropped (Cylinder 2) the piston smashed them against the spark plug and mechanic thinks piston broke and pieces went down in the crankcase and con rod pushing against making a hole.
Now...Rockwell Cycles in New York did a valve adjustment work (1000$) the week before all of this happened. I know there is responsibility involved. They are blaming Mv saying that these engines tend to drop valves (I knew it was/is happening with 675cc engines, rarely on 800) the motor of this bike has been flawless for 28000 Miles (And seriously BOTH VALVES DROPPED? MV FAULT, COME ON!!!!).
They touch it, 500 miles later, disaster happened.
What really bothers me is that they are not taking responsibilities so far and they told me they passed photos and infos to MV USA. There is hope they decide to send me a new engine ( And rightly so....!!! They can "DEAL" with the garage or mechanics (so to speak...:).
Hopefully I will not be caught in the middle of MV blaming mechanic and mechanic blaming MV.
The result might be a summer with NO BIKE!!!
I spoke to Gabriele from Evolution Bike in Milan yesterday and before I knew today what happened he told me that 1 or both exhaust valve dropped because they did a shi$$y horrible job when they serviced it. He was right. Evolution Bike are highly reliable and professional (Did or they still do the electronics for F3 in SuperSport World Championship).
Anyway, let's see what they all me and offer me in a couple of days. Someone has to pay for the damage caused!!
Also ready to take legal action (again, I could have been seriously injured or worst!!!)
Thank you all,
Ciao
IMG_7893.jpg
IMG_7898.jpg
IMG_7899.jpg
IMG_7900.jpg
IMG_7901.jpg
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
5,280 Posts
Need to ask more questions at the bike shop before blaming them.
When they did the valve clearance check did they have to change shims which means
camshaft removal or were the clearances within specs?
If the cams were not removed it's not the bike shops fault therefore it's a mechanical failure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Need to ask more questions at the bike shop before blaming them.
When they did the valve clearance check did they have to change shims which means
camshaft removal or were the clearances within specs?
If the cams were not removed it's not the bike shops fault therefore it's a mechanical failure.
Hello!!
They told me that ALL THE VALVES were out of specs.... too tight. They had to shim them all. The intake ones not too bad, but the exhaust ones very tight. That what they told me when I picked the bike up and they charged me for on the invoice. Thank you
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top