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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
BAUTISTA has went from the new Ducati V4 Panagale which is the fastest bike on the WSBK grid yet the worst handling bike on the WSBK grid to the SLOWEST bike on the WSBK grid with mediocre handling Honda has POURED HRC money and engineering into the CBR1000RR yet it is still woefully down on Horsepower compared to the other manufacturers Superbikes . SO IMHO instead of penalizing new/modern engine designs like on the Ducati V4 and the Kawasaki ZX10RR , let Ducati ,Kawasaki ect develop the best engine design they can THEN allow the 12 year old engine design Honda CBR1000RR another 100cc. Increasing displacement is easy, cheap , it WORKS AND its predictable. Meaning , race engineers can make lower tech engines competitive without giving them an ADVANTAGE. YES I would also rather help out small manufacturers to get them into the WSBK series( like TRIUMPH 1050 TRIPLE) but IMHO it beats Honda/HRC getting embarrassed then packing there bags and leaving WSBK

BTW The Honda CBR1000RR was actually SLOWER through the trap speed meters at the end of the straits , than the MV F4RC which is a 20 YEAR OLD ENGINE DESIGN. This is why I said 100cc. It sounds like a lot but both Cosworth AND HRC did not achieve competitive HP Gains .
 

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Where have you been?:surprise: The Bautista signing was confirmed about a week ago, although as you might remember, it had been floating in the breeze for about 6 weeks.

You might also have not read in your numerous references, that Honda is introducing an 'all new' CBR1000RR for the 2020 grid and sales year. It is said to be released at the forthcoming Tokyo Motor Show.

Whilst dealers are in their usual 'we know nothing' mode, some sources (and I have a close one) have suggested two models to be retailed, one at UK£20,000 and the other at UK£36,000. Whilst these figures are disproportionately high, this often happens that pre-release figures are purposely high and then lowered on official release to stimulate further interest.

There does seem to be a lot of logic here. Given that the proposed 2020 bike is 'all new' that should mean going through a new homologation process which suggests that the £36K model will be such a bike and tricked up as a 'special'. Price puts it in Panigale Speciale territory, so it would have to be a truly devoted Honda person (like myself:smile2:) to drop that amount of coin on a new bike. Buyers logic would convince me that Yamaha's R1M at UK£22.700 would be a far more 'sensible' purchase.

This will remain a 'time will tell' situation I guess.:wink2:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Nigel been feeling lousey and to get proper healthcare in USA you either have to be on welfare, but that's a discussion for another day . Thank you for the CBR1000RR info. Honda has the ability to build a Superbike to match the Europeans they just haven't done so in many years.Please tell me its a V-4 at least. I should be a better handling bike than the Ducati V-4 being Ducati shot themselves in the foot by sticking with the Monoque chassis in the V-4 when Ducati never really sorted it out on the 1199R V-twin. The articles I have read have just said.... new CBR1000RR … then, No Honda is going with old CBR1000RR, then Honda back with new Cbr1000RR. It Changes every week, this week a 2 inch by 2 inch Article in MCN says new CBR1000RR back on for Bautista. That is all it said lol There has been murmurs/rumors that KTM will be producing a RC16 v-4 Superbike. Not to race in WSBK, just to show they can make a proper Superbike. I REALLY would like to add a KTM RC16 V4 with steel trellis chassis. Like a German V-4 MV F4RC.. IF.. its in the MV F4RC or Ducati V4R price range. AND no 40,000$ =High performance package upgrade. via Honda RCV213V. ANYHOW if Honda is actually planning to run an all new CBR1000RR for 2020 someone has to be getting it ready somewhere as we speak as 2020 is around the corner.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hi Nigel the2020 Honda CBR1000RR is a good looker for a Honda . I am sure its well manored/smooth ect but it looks to be the same CBR1000RR as the 2016/17/18/19 model with new body work. Sorry Nigel I think Hondas definition of ...all new.. means that when you pick up your NEW bike at he dealer , it doesn't have a previous owner LOLOL. Nigel ,In the UK you can actually bet on motorcycle races like off track betting like we do here in USA ON Horses. Well I wouldn't bet the ranch as they say , but we shall see.They say Honda payed Bautista big money to switch from Ducati to honda so maybe Bautista will out ride REA next year.
 

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Hi Nigel the2020 Honda CBR1000RR is a good looker for a Honda .. .
All pics presently available are only rendered images sitting on 'click bait' web sites. There have been no leaks of pics or specs other than to say it will be an inline 4-cyl.

Bautista has proven he can outride Rea, but he had the bike to do it with (Ducati) and familiarity with those circuits. Even I would not put money on him getting anywhere near Rea. Honda couldn't possibly come up with a winning formula on a new bike.

Don't forget there was a big song and dance from Honda/HRC pre-2019 season about how they were injecting bucket loads of money into WSB in concert with Moriwaki technology. Massive fail!! To date, Honda has only 73 points in WSB and privateer Delbianco has 22 of them!!
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Nigel my fault=old eyes. Didn't see the...Asphaltandrubber.com Under the pictureism.. That site is the national inquirer of moto journalism. Honda better unveil the bike ASAP if they want to enter it into the 2020 WSBK season.BUT make no mistake. Both Chaz Davies AND Bautista had to ride dam near perfect races and not put a wheel wrong .Everyone thinks of the sweet handling Ducati 1098/1198 steel trellis chassis world Superbikes. then Ducati came out with the 1199 Panagale with the Monoque chassis which was a BIG step backwards. (look this up) Even though the Ducati 1199R had more power than the 1198R It took 2 years/seasons before the 1199R could even MATCH the lap times of the 1198R. Compare the 2 bikes handling on YOU TUBE and you will wonder how Bautista/and Davies kept the winning streak going for so long.


A friend of a friend from Ireland is a F1 chassis designer. (and a fellow bike enthusiast)Said all the manufacturers who made Superbikes and where in racing, got on board with thought that they could use exsisting base chassis designs add electronics to adjust flex/stiffness/forward/rearward/side to side thrust forces ect ect BETTER and CHEAPER. Which worked until Horsepower overpowered the chassises now everyone is playing catch up in chassis design and was caught out in the cold so to speak.


A good example on a road bike/Superbike is the Kawasaki H2 w all said had such a flimsy tube chassis but a lot of electronics. The bike still has ALOT of flex in the rear of chassis even though it has 9 levels of traction control, launch control ect ect.


So The Ducati V4 inherent chassis problems might just put it out of title contention just like the monoque chassis did on the 199 Panagale V-twin


BTW THIS IS UNDER EXTREME RACING CONDITIONS WE MORTALS WILL NEVER RIDE SO HARD THAT WE OVER TAX A MODERN SPORTBIKE CHASSIS LOLOL
 

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The next Fireblade will for sure be a better base for taking it into WSBK.
And the chassis will play a role in the new concept. But in the end it will come down to the amount of tuning that Honda is willing to invest. The Kwak is a solid base model and had continuously been improved to perform in racing, but the key to success has been, besides Johnny Rea-, the amount of money and technological support for the PROVEC team that make the ZX-10RR a championship bike. Suspension, Swingarm, Brakes. Nothing of that has a near relationship with what you get from the Kawasaki dealer.

The SC77 could maybe have been turned into a stronger contender if Honda had been willing to invest. The new machine is likely to have finger follower valve actuation to be more robust at high revs. The rest will anyway modified by the race team.

The WSBK series is billed as stock-near championship, but these machines are prototypes with stock appearance.
 

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They can't really do anything with the bottom end of the motor so it'll all be about what kind of head work the can do to get more power and their investment in electronics support. Sure HRC is going to be involved but that really doesn't have me convinced if they're taking bits of Marquez bike that nobody else can seem to ride

Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk
 

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. . . The WSBK series is billed as stock-near championship, but these machines are prototypes with stock appearance.
Precisely. And that's why they build restricted homologation models, AND THEN the race bike ends up far superior, in almost every way, to the homologation model. Go figure.:surprise::smile2:
 

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They can't really do anything with the bottom end of the motor so it'll all be about what kind of head work the can do to get more power . . . Sure HRC is going to be involved but that really doesn't have me convinced if they're taking bits of Marquez bike . . .
Remember though, that we're talking WSB here where Honda uses inline fours against Marquez's RC213V which is a V4. I don't think there'd be much cross-compatibility.:wink2:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hopefully Dorna will not penalize the new CBR1000RR with a 500RPM reduction and rescind the same 500RPM penalty already given to Kawasaki and Ducati. There is no need for handicapping for old designs being there should be no old designs now .
 

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The new Honda Superbike has some cool innovations. I like the auto retracting wings and tiny LED headlights inside/surrounding the air intake. It also supposed to have a counter-rotating crankshaft and some very special electronic capabilities. First hand observations say the engine has a distinct sound. No wonder Bautista signed when he was shown the new design. On paper Honda is going to have technical advantages over the other SBK teams for 2020. My sources in Japan assure me that the bike is definitely not a V4 and that it is significantly different than the current CBR. The public should get a look in the next few weeks.
 

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@nigelrb: Maybe you have already seen this. . .
Yes, thanks, it was brought up on a Honda forum!:grin2:

I did read some time back that these 'active aerodynamics' are sensor operated, so that they're retracted until popping out at a certain speed. I don't mind that at all (aesthetically) because I think some of the fixed wings are a bit pretentious on road-going bikes.

But hey, I am getting old because I once thought that fully-faired bikes on the road were pretentious. Now, I wouldn't be without one 'cause I'm not keen on nakeds. Go figure!:smile2::wink2:
 
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