[Crashxx]

Hi everyone,

Something weird is happening to my Brutale. I guess the best way to describe the issue would be to post the timeline of events.

1. I had an issue where the starter was clicking but not turning the engine. Replaced the starter solenoid with the Yamaha one ( as per this thread - Starter relay). Although the relay I received had the fuse on the right side (and the extra wire as well). So when I replaced it, I also reversed the wire connections (see the attached pic).

2. The bike was running well, thought I did not ride it. So started it a few times to check that replacing the relay has fixed the problem.

3. A eek later I tried to start it and realised that the battery is dead. I don't ride the bike a lot (maybe once in a month or so) so I thought this might be ok.

4. Connected the battery to the charger for 15min thinking that it might be enough for the bike to start and then it will recharge as I'm riding.

5. After 15min of charging the battery, the bike did start normally but the battery indicator was on. I thought this was fine as had it turning on a few times before when I started the bike after not riding it for weeks. usually, it would go off after 10-20 minutes of riding

6. I went for a ride, but after a few minutes of riding, the dash display turned off, dash lights blinked a few times and then the engine stopped. When I turned the ignition off an on again - everything looked normal, except that the battery looked almost dead and the engine wasn't turning

7. Recharged the battery again (though it is weird that the charger showed "fully charged" after an hour of charging. Took it to a Battery World shop, they tested it and said it is good working condition

8. Now, the main issue that after all that the bike starts, but the battery indicator is on, the engine sounds like a muffled tractor and the bike has like 20% of it's power (feels like the engine is misfiring or something like that)

Any suggestions please ?

I have no idea how to tackle this

 

[ViggenF4]

Id still say its the battery.

 

[silentservice703]

I'd say that when you rewired the relay, you now have a permanent drain on the battery through the relay.

 

[esq'z me]

There is another possibility...although I would check key off current draw first to eliminate Chuck's idea. The alternator is driven by a cushioned drive system. If the rubber elements of that have failed the engine will not spin the alternator enough to keep the battery charged.

This would explain charge system warning light being on when engine is running, and slow loss of charge while riding, and odd noises.

Do you own a volt/ohm/amp meter? Check charging voltage when engine is at idle (14.5+), check key off amperage across main fuse (take it out and insert meter probes in fuse connectors), should be low millivolts (less than 10).

Low charge at idle is an alternator problem (maybe the cush drive?), high key off current draw is am electrical fault somewhere (maybe the relay wiring?).

Good luck.

 

[Crashxx]

I don't have the device, might be the time to buy one!

What is the worst case scenario if I try to swap the 2 wires that are connected to the relay ? Is there a chance of frying something ?

And how do I check the charging voltage? Just connect the tips of the voltmeter to +/- of the battery while the bike is running ?

 

[mitchy]

I don't have the device, might be the time to buy one!

What is the worst case scenario if I try to swap the 2 wires that are connected to the relay ? Is there a chance of frying something ?

And how do I check the charging voltage? Just connect the tips of the voltmeter to +/- of the battery while the bike is running ?

Volt/Ohm meters are quite cheap.
Set the meter to 20volts
Place the probes red to positive side of battery.
Black to negative side of the battery.
Record the voltage without the motor running.
Start the motor record the voltage at idle.
Rev the bike to around 3000rpm and record that voltage.
Then let us know the figures.

 

[theknurl]

?

The alternator is driven by a cushioned drive system. If the rubber elements of that have failed the engine will not spin the alternator enough to keep the battery charged.
.

Ed;
Look at page G 14 of the Brutale Parts Manual
The 2, 4 bladed parts of the cush drive interlock, the rubber just keeps them from beating each other up
Someone recently posted that the bolt #7 backed out and there was a random noise.....
I think it was one of the Dutch or English guys

 

[AgustaRod]

Hi everyone,

Something weird is happening to my Brutale 910S. I guess the best way to describe the issue would be to post the timeline of events.

1. I had an issue where the starter was clicking but not turning the engine. Replaced the starter solenoid with the Yamaha one ( as per this thread - https://www.mvagusta.net/forum/20-maintenance-tech-issues-all-4-cyl-models/105017-starter-relay.html). Although the relay I received had the fuse on the right side (and the extra wire as well). So when I replaced it, I also reversed the wire connections (see the attached pic).

2. The bike was running well, thought I did not ride it. So started it a few times to check that replacing the relay has fixed the problem.

3. A eek later I tried to start it and realised that the battery is dead. I don't ride the bike a lot (maybe once in a month or so) so I thought this might be ok.

4. Connected the battery to the charger for 15min thinking that it might be enough for the bike to start and then it will recharge as I'm riding.

5. After 15min of charging the battery, the bike did start normally but the battery indicator was on. I thought this was fine as had it turning on a few times before when I started the bike after not riding it for weeks. usually, it would go off after 10-20 minutes of riding

6. I went for a ride, but after a few minutes of riding, the dash display turned off, dash lights blinked a few times and then the engine stopped. When I turned the ignition off an on again - everything looked normal, except that the battery looked almost dead and the engine wasn't turning

7. Recharged the battery again (though it is weird that the charger showed "fully charged" after an hour of charging. Took it to a Battery World shop, they tested it and said it is good working condition

8. Now, the main issue that after all that the bike starts, but the battery indicator is on, the engine sounds like a muffled tractor and the bike has like 20% of it's power (feels like the engine is misfiring or something like that)

Any suggestions please ?

I have no idea how to tackle this

Looking at your diagram I think you may have bought the wrong relay as the one I bought was wired correctly as per the MV pic , the solenoid actuator the smaller wires are wired internally different . it uses an early FZ6 relay.


A quick test would be to swap the B to M and see what it doehttps://www.mvagusta.net/forum/20-maintenance-tech-issues-all-4-cyl-models/215073-buy-cheap-buy-twice-old-chestnut.htmls.

 

[silentservice703]

I don't have the device, might be the time to buy one!

What is the worst case scenario if I try to swap the 2 wires that are connected to the relay ? Is there a chance of frying something ?

And how do I check the charging voltage? Just connect the tips of the voltmeter to +/- of the battery while the bike is running ?

AS you issue started when you installed the new solenoid, the old mechanic's adage says that is the source of the issue. You stated you swapped the wiring before you installed the initial solenoid, yes? Pictures of teh solenoid would be helpful as there should be a mimic of the device internals on one side of it.

For running voltage, BLACK lead to NEGATIVE, RED lead to POSITIVE and bike at 5000 rpm or so.

 

[theknurl]

?

Crashxx;
A clicking solenoid is either a low battery or loose/dirty connection.......
Clean all the connections ......put dielectric grease on all connections
Check the 40Amp fuse with an Ohm meter
Put the original solenoid back on:wink2:

Bet it works:wink2:

 

[Crashxx]

thanks everyone for your input!

Tried to start the engine and the old "solenoid clicks but engine does not start issue" came back again.. so frustrating! it was starting perfectly when I changed the solenoid.

This is what I have so far:

• without the motor running the voltage is 11.9V
• As esq'z me suggested I also tested key off amperage across the main fuse- it is less than 0.01V
• Had a proper look at the new solenoid and there is no diagram on it at all. It was this one I bought - https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Motorcycle-Starter-Solenoid-Relay-For-MV-Agusta-Brutale-675-1090-750-900/182493648515?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 Though even their picture has the fuse on the left side.
• I threw away the old solenoid thinking it was broken. The bike was starting normally after all!
• I uploaded the video here of my attempts to start the engine-
• Checked the thread that AgustaRod posted. My relay also has 30amp fuses instead of 40. Not sure if switching wires for a test is safe.Is it?
• Checked all battery and solenoid connections - everything looks ok.

 

[ViggenF4]

11,9 is too low to start.

 

[silentservice703]

Switching the leads for M (motor) and B (battery) will not affect the electrical system. The RED circles are M & B.

It will change where the fuse is in the circuit with relation to the battery lead.

2005/2006:



2007:



Functionally, both are the same. Year to year, wiring changes as does componentry. THE YEAR OF YOUR BIKE IS IMPORTANT. Please put year and model in your signature line. This helps us help you.

On the voltage issue, your battery is dead. Either charge the battery up to 13.2 vdc, or get a new battery and before using it, charge it up to 13.2 vdc.

 

[theknurl]

?

Crashxx;

The problem with reversing M and B makes it incompatible with the MV harness at the 4 wire plug>

The alternator is no longer connected:wink2:
Trying to start with 11.9 volts is stupid
You don't check electrical connections by looking at them

 

[Crashxx]

The bike is 2005 Brutale 910S.

The problem is that even with the old relay and new battery the bike was still just clicking. Putting some pressure on the left wire connected to the relay helped sometimes and the bike would start.

Now I have the same issue. I checked the wire connections to the battery and to the relay (not by just looking at them obviously) - disconnected, cleaned everything and connected back in. No help

Is it normal that the battery died so fast? I bought it in Sep 2018

I get that 11.9V is too low to start, but would it be so low that the engine wouldn't even try to turn? I mean, before the clicking issue came back the engine was at least turning even with this dying battery. I will of course replace it, but I have a feeling that it's not the battery this time.

I guess step 1 would be to get a new battery now.. Anything else? Is it worth trying to reverse the relay wire connection with the current battery ?

Charging to 13.2vdc - is it just a normal charge ? Or do I need some kind of a special charger ?

 

[ViggenF4]

With 11,9 it will not crank.

 

[silentservice703]

This is how dead your battery is!

If that is a Li battery you will need a Li charger, if ti si a Lead-Acid battery, you will need a smart charger with desulfation mode.

 

[Crashxx]

left the battery connected to the charger overnight. It now shows 12.8V. I've put it back into MV and no luck..the solenoid keeps clicking. Tried reversing wires as well.

Any suggestions as to what I should do next?

 

[silentservice703]

Buy a new AGM battery. Preferably a Yuasa YTZ10S and do a 24 hour initializing charge BEFORE putting the battery in the bike.

After that we can do some proper troubleshooting.

 

[ViggenF4]

Crash. Your battery can be toast even if it holds static 12.8.

Measure the voltage when you press the starter, i bet it drops way down. Has happened to me many times!