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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I changed the oil today and had some pretty concerning results. My oil plug had a pretty significant amount of metal flakes on it. I'm thinking I either have a gear or bearing that's going. I've noticed that the bike has been getting much more difficult to get into neutral and shift between 1st and 2nd when it gets warmed up.

I think I'll start by pulling the clutch then the gearbox. Thoughts?

UPDATE: Root cause of the metal was my cam chain idler gear bearing and shaft. The bearing and shaft is located below the cylinder and mounted in the crankcase. There has been at least two Brutales with this issue, possibly three. This repair required removal of the cam cover, camshafts, cylinder head, cylinder, at least one piston and the front chassis for ease of access.
 

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Smoker;
I'd do a real good job of bleeding the clutch.......if that doesn't fix it look at the clutch pack
then I'd drop the oil pan and check the idler gear and bearing
If the transmission isn't making noise I doubt that's the problem

:wink2:
 

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Smoker,can you please confirm model and year, current mileage also what oil you running and idea of oil change intervals, I guess there was no sign of anything like this the last change?

Certainly something amiss and worth following Noel's advice for next steps.
 

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There was another thread somewhere about metal flakes. The OP finally tore down the engine to find the issue.

Here it is: http://www.mvagusta.net/forum/20-ma...els/177817-help-metal-shavings-sump-plug.html

Mate that was me. Long story short. It was the bearing on the lower cam chain gear. Same amount of metal. And I will bet there will be heaps more metal still trapped in the sump which you will have to drop and clean.

You can pull the clutch and gearbox for piece of mind, but if I was you I would take off the rocker cover and if you have access to an inspection camera (USB camera a few bucks on ebay) stick it down through the top until you can see the gear. Then rock the crank back and forth slightly using normal hex key for engine rotation and you should be able to see the gear twist off its axis because if the bearing is gone there is about 2mm of play between the gear and shaft.
If this is the problem you have to go in from the top. I removed the engine but Eddypro stripped his B4 by just lifting and supporting the front end.

Hope this helps.
Rob
 

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@Smoker: Justin, I have a fiber optic camera I can send your way. You actually might have access to one in the "shop" of yours......
 

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Discussion Starter #7
There was another thread somewhere about metal flakes. The OP finally tore down the engine to find the issue.

Here it is: http://www.mvagusta.net/forum/20-ma...els/177817-help-metal-shavings-sump-plug.html
Thanks Chuck. I was actually taking a look at this yesterday as soon as I saw how much metal was on my plug.

Smoker;
I'd do a real good job of bleeding the clutch.......if that doesn't fix it look at the clutch pack
then I'd drop the oil pan and check the idler gear and bearing
If the transmission isn't making noise I doubt that's the problem

:wink2:
Thanks Noel. I actually did bleed the clutch in the Fall after I did the valve clearance check. It did improve but the fluid was very cloudy (previous owner never changed it). It wouldn't hurt to give it another flush of clean fluid.

Smoker,can you please confirm model and year, current mileage also what oil you running and idea of oil change intervals, I guess there was no sign of anything like this the last change?

Certainly something amiss and worth following Noel's advice for next steps.
2011 B4 1090RR with 12,xxx miles. I've changed the oil two or three times since I've had it so on average it is changed around 3k miles or once a season. I can't speak for how often the previous owner changed it. I run 20W50 (I don't want to start another "best" oil thread!:laughing:) No, I did not notice metal shaving like this on my last oil change.

Mate that was me. Long story short. It was the bearing on the lower cam chain gear. Same amount of metal. And I will bet there will be heaps more metal still trapped in the sump which you will have to drop and clean.

You can pull the clutch and gearbox for piece of mind, but if I was you I would take off the rocker cover and if you have access to an inspection camera (USB camera a few bucks on ebay) stick it down through the top until you can see the gear. Then rock the crank back and forth slightly using normal hex key for engine rotation and you should be able to see the gear twist off its axis because if the bearing is gone there is about 2mm of play between the gear and shaft.
If this is the problem you have to go in from the top. I removed the engine but Eddypro stripped his B4 by just lifting and supporting the front end.

Hope this helps.
Rob
Rob,

I went through your whole thread yesterday. I'm hoping it's not the same issue but our metal flakes do look eerily similar. I get to work with problematic crankshaft suppliers at work so I'm sure i'll be lucky enough to deal with it at home now.

@Smoker: Justin, I have a fiber optic camera I can send your way. You actually might have access to one in the "shop" of yours......
You are right about that Chuck. I actually have a borescope for my phone that I can get out.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'm going to clear out some space in the garage and get to it. I was looking forward to a season with little maintenance and lots of riding. So much for that!

I probably won't be able to pull the clutch today since I don't have anything to hold the hub with and I don't have an impact to try it without the hub tool.
 

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@Smoker...you want me to send you my clutch basket tool?

DSC_2546r.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #9
@Smoker...you want me to send you my clutch basket tool?

[iurl="http://www.mvagusta.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=371481&d=1487518210"]
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Thanks for the offer Chuck. I should be able to get my hands on something from work or else I can get something fab'd up quick. If not, I'll let you know.
 

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Good Luck!
 

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Chuck;
Before sending the hub tool.....
there are a bunch of different ones on MVs.....
You'll need the OD and number of teeth

:wink2:
 

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True, but the OBERON tool seems to be universal. It has multiple tooth patterns...all in multiples of twelve probably.
@lefin102: I have the Milwaukee Fiber Optic tool.
 
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Chuck;
He needs to lock the clutch HUB, the number of fingers on the basket don't count

1000S hub 109.4mm OD 28 teeth
MV slipper clutch hub 112.2mm OD 37 teeth
both baskets have 12 fingers, but the fiber plates won't interchange center hole is different

See the problem?

easiest solution buy the universal tool, looks like a pair of long welding Vise Grips with the tips bent 90°
~ $19 on eBay

:wink2:
 

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Looks like Rob's issue all over,when Rob showed me the toothed cam chain toothed wheel at the bottom it was made differently to mine ,The material used in the centre looked like high tensile steel and mine looked like brass ,Rob would know better as he had both and i never replaced mine.Weird.
 

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Looks like Rob's issue all over,when Rob showed me the toothed cam chain toothed wheel at the bottom it was made differently to mine ,The material used in the centre looked like high tensile steel and mine looked like brass ,Rob would know better as he had both and i never replaced mine.Weird.

The replacement item I got from Evolution had the brass/copper looking bearing. There was a guy in Cairns (Aust) had the same problem with his F4 which was a 2010 model. Maybe they changed something in 2010 on and got it wrong. Conspiracy theorists go.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Sorry I don't have any updates for you guys at this point. I was in Taiwan and Japan for a couple of weeks so I wasn't able to do much with the bike. I did get a universal clutch tool but I need to grind the teeth down so I don't leave any nasty burrs on the hub. I'm hoping I can get back into the shop to modify the tool this week and continue tearing the bike down this weekend.

I'll keep everyone posted.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Quick update:
I was finally able to pull the clutch out this weekend. The clutch along with the gear teeth all looked good. Unfortunately, the borescope I have does not have a bright enough light for me to get a good look at the lower cam chain gear.

I have started pulling parts off the LH side so I can pull out the gearset next. Slave, waterpump and sprocket covers are pulled off. I'm just getting my hands on a chain breaker now so I can get the chain and front sprocket off.

I should have an update on how the gearset looks tomorrow night.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I pulled the gear set out yesterday. Good news, I don't see any abnormal wear on the gear teeth, shift drum or any other parts in the gear set. Bad news, looks like I need to continue taking the bike apart. I did notice a little bit of play on the input shaft and output shaft so I am assuming this is normal. If only one had play then I would be more inclined to take apart the gear set and check the bearings. That is unless the bearings on the input or output shaft are known to go out on this bike.

I figure I will start taking the rest of the body work off and the frame so I can start taking the camshaft, cylinder head and cylinder off to inspect the cam chain gear. Or I could just put it all back together and sell the thing!:laughing:
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Has anyone removed the front frame while keeping it attached to the forks and wheel before? I've loosened up the frame and pulled it up/back before to do my valve adjustment. In this case I am planning on removing it completely for the engine tear down. I was thinking I could disconnect all of the wiring, throttle cables, clutch line and coolant lines so that the frame could be disconnected, pivoted up and wheeled out of the way with the front tire, forks, triples and handles all still on. It would save me from having to remove the front wheel and forks while giving more room with it all completely pulled out of the way.
 
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