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Interesting read.
If you have no service or goods because business are shut down, how does one stimulate an economy?

Now, please do not let this devolve further into a political discussion. The GPR thread was killed because of vitriol.
 

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Thanks for the excellent/interesting replies MacStrine. It was mentioned to me that the governments can just print money, presumably do they have to get together with one another to agree how much they can print, or it's the IMF's job?

I like the bit about tough if you are self employed and you did your best to understate your earnings. I know someone who does his level best with the books to give the government as little as possible.

As for Trump cutting the funding to the WHO at a time like this, they may not be perfect but they is all we got and it seems terribly short sighted. This could effect the states in the long run as any Country which can't cope with the virus stands a chance of infecting another nation, this virus was spread globally. There is also the chance that if a country is in trouble that trade/manufacture problems can effect many countries, our economies can be so interlinked.
I could be wrong but from how it seems to me Trump's cutting of the WHO's fund was possibly about shifting blame/attention. This is seriously not the time for games.

As for what the long term social/economic etc changes will be from all this.... we are certainly living in a significant time in history.

You seem well read and know your history, Hitlers rise to power out of the depression etc. What worries me looking at history(which repeats it'self because the basic human condition remains the same) is what will humanities/earth's problems bring, ie rising sea levels, increased droughts etc. Trouble/problems, a lack of land/resources leads to totalitarian governments/rulers and war is how I read history over the last 4000 yrs.

Woops, sorry Chuck, I was busy typing when you wrote the above, please delete my post if it is making things untidy.
 

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Yeah but they also have /had an open border to all and sundry as part of the European Union. Australia has the advantage of being on the other side of the world and as a result vastly removed when the shit hit the fan.
Yes our border is not as porous as those in Europe, but it isn't just about that.
Australia has in excess of 420 000 foreign students with a population of 25million, the bulk of them coming from China. As a comparison the US has the most foreign studnets and has about 1.1million foreign students and a population of 328 million. Or basically Australia 5 times the number of foreign student per capita. It is one of our largest sources of revenue and our biggest risk in this case.
The main issue in europe is the ageing population and some things we find quite foreign such as heavy smoking is still very common. This is a significant risk factor to surviving COVID-19 because it usually implies underlying illnesses that COVID-19 becomes the straw that broke the camels back for.
 

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There is so much shit coming up for sale now on Facey and Gumtree. People are starting to struggle.

The key in these times is LEADERSHIP. Without it you are stuffed.
 

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There is so much shit coming up for sale now on Facey and Gumtree. People are starting to struggle.
Same with UK eBay.

I'm seeing bikes come up that ordinarily wouldn't. All dealers remain closed (but will sell online) so the private sales surely aren't in preparation for trade-in; they're sales to survive. I wouldn't mind another bike as a project, but it does prick my (very small) conscience that I would be seen to gain advantage by this world wide crisis.
 

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If they are selling it you are probably helping them, just don't be an arse about it. I like to think I'm lucky, not better so treat people with respect in those situations.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Coincidentally, there was a piece on the ABCs 7.30 report last night about Sweden's success. An epidemiologist was asserting that Sweden was particularly mindful about protecting older Swedes, and she thought that they had done a good job. Interesting definition of a good job?

On the same program was a piece about the increased welfare payments giving an immediate economic boost as people were spending that money on essentials, and therefore helping the economy.

There is still plenty of business activity in Australia, although obviously much reduced, people still need to buy the things that they actually need, but the hospitality/tourism/retail sectors are either closed or operating online, so at a reduced level. All shops that do not attract large crowds (eg department stores) are still open, with social distancing being practiced. Bike shops included, there is just less foot traffic.

I am surprised that more consideration has not been given to social worth. People dying is a significant cost to a society in all sorts of ways, all that money put into education and the skills, knowledge and emotional intelligence that most people bring to a community are hard to replace and put a value on.
 

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Woops, sorry Chuck, I was busy typing when you wrote the above, please delete my post if it is making things untidy.
It is an interesting and polite conversation so far. No need for worry. It was just a reminder of things past.
 

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MacStrine;
ABC News is full of shit
Yesterday's numbers
Sweden
population 10,230,000
Fatalities from Covid 19 2586 people
Fatalities as a percentage 0.0003

California
population 40,000,000
Fatalities from Covid 19 1982 people
Fatalities as a percentage 0.00004955

Orange County California (next county to me)
population 3,200,000
Fatalities from Covid 19......44, yes 44 people
Fatalities as a percentage 0.00001375

San Diego County
population 3,400,000
Fatalities from Covid 19 120 people
Fatalities as a percentage 0.000035294

So Sweden has triple the population, of Orange County
triple Orange County's deaths to 132
Sweden has almost 20 TIMES THE DEATH RATE

Think I'd rather be here:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

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Discussion Starter #30
MacStrine;
ABC News is full of shit
Yesterday's numbers
Sweden
population 10,230,000
Fatalities from Covid 19 2586 people
Fatalities as a percentage 0.0003

California
population 40,000,000
Fatalities from Covid 19 1982 people
Fatalities as a percentage 0.00004955

Orange County California (next county to me)
population 3,200,000
Fatalities from Covid 19......44, yes 44 people
Fatalities as a percentage 0.00001375

San Diego County
population 3,400,000
Fatalities from Covid 19 120 people
Fatalities as a percentage 0.000035294

So Sweden has triple the population, of Orange County
triple Orange County's deaths to 132
Sweden has almost 20 TIMES THE DEATH RATE

Think I'd rather be here:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
Not sure what your point is Noel as it seemed to me that the Swedes were 'dreaming' about their success, hence the comparison with Australia and American Georgia.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
MacStrine;
ABC News is full of shit
Yesterday's numbers
Sweden
population 10,230,000
Fatalities from Covid 19 2586 people
Fatalities as a percentage 0.0003

California
population 40,000,000
Fatalities from Covid 19 1982 people
Fatalities as a percentage 0.00004955

Think I'd rather be here:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
I forgot how much you enjoy statistics. It was remiss of me not to add to my above post that I am also glad that you live in Calif & not Sweden. You are an international MV Agusta treasure and all, and Sweden seems a relatively dangerous place at the mo. Sweden though seems to think they are doing okay. You must also be glad that the person making decisions in your state is not as cavalier with citizen's lives as some leaders?
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Thanks for the excellent/interesting replies MacStrine. It was mentioned to me that the governments can just print money, presumably do they have to get together with one another to agree how much they can print, or it's the IMF's job?
My knowledge of economics is not what it was, and trying to explain how it all works without offending someone can also be tricky. This is very basic. If I get it wrong someone will correct me. Ryan, if you are out there?

Central banks, like the Australian Reserve Bank (your Exchequer) control how much money there is in the economy. They do so relative to whatever the government policy of the day is trying to achieve, and what is happening nationally and internationally. An example might be that if inflation is low (which it is all around the world at the moment and has been for a long time) and say if incoming monies from taxation are higher than planned, the central bank might further lower the official interest rate, i.e. how much the banks should be charging to borrow money. This will mean that people either have more to spend, or more to save, depending on numerous variables, such as whether or not there has just been catastrophic bushfires. The govt & central bank monitors the economy post the change, and then adds whatever ingredients they want and have to achieve their objective, then we start the process all over again.

A bit like a day at the races.

As the central banks indirectly run the mint, they can order more money to be printed. This money takes several forms, eg cash or bonds and various other mechanisms (some might even say, a sleight of hand) to generate money. Too much money in an economy means that it may lose its value relative to goods and stuff that people want and need. Like say, an MV. You may have seen the photos of Germany in the depression, people paid cash in wheel barrows and only able to buy a loaf of bread with that barrowload. Too little money however and credit becomes really tight and the whole show grinds to a halt, as no one is spending and no one is lending. As Aboriginal Australian comedian Ernie Dingo once said 'Money talks, and it always says goodbye.'

Central banks will probably print more money to pay for all the Covid initiatives required to keep the economy going, while endeavoring to keep prices down and the supply of money moving. There will be government debt, probably a lot of it and for a long time, but that is neither especially new nor frightening. Taxes and other forms of government revenue can be raised, or changed, savings in existing service delivery programs can be found (eg buy less subs, close a few schools).

The thing with government is that there is a lot of money and a lot of options. There is a big difference between the sort of budget debt you and I might have, and the sort of debt that a government may have, and what each of those parties can do about that debt. Often what a government means when it says 'we' can't afford more teachers and nurses is that employing more nurses and teachers is not on our agenda, because we would sooner give you all a tax break, so that you vote for us again next time.

There are people alive who have endured much worse economic circumstances than what we are currently facing, and at least this disaster will leave all our infrastructure, industry and society, and the almost all of our people intact. As long as no one panics or tries to get some sort of advantage, we may even be better off. Certainly, all this social inactivity is good for the planet.

If you are really interested there should be lots of web sites on this subject. If you have insomnia, reading about economics may help. Hope I did not offend anyone. If so, harden up.
 

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QUOTE="cus, post: 2628049, member: 30161"]
I used to be at New Norfolk, up till May last year
There are a few Hobarters in the last few months that have joined, mostly all on Brutales. That photo in your avatar, is it at Baskerville? You had a Falcon ute? VP of SRCT?
[/QUOTE]
Yes mate , that’s me and yes that was racing in the rain at Basky
 
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