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Discussion Starter #1
Recently bought a 2013 F4. At the time I was told "Yeah, it can need a bit of throttle to start". I was skeptical but, given 2nd hand F4s are like rocking hose sh%t and it was replacing a 1098 that was, quite frankly, bonkers, I let it slide.

Today (this is a few months later), I got the message on my dash of an exhaust valve fault.

First things first: check the valve. So I stripped off the heat shield plat (noticing that there was a missing bolt) and found the following:

  • The valve is jammed in the "Open" position
  • The cables that move the valve were missing!
So I surmised that this bike originally had an AM exhaust (something I was thinking of doing anyway) and the cables had been removed so they weren't in the way. Subsequently, the valve has seized while sitting in the garage somewhere.

Now, I am aware that, providing the servo is working, it should *think* everything is dandy. My guess is the servo has packed in. Problem is I cannot find the bloody thing. If the cables were still attached I;d be able to trace them back to the motor but, as they are missing I have no way of working this out.

I found these pictures that seem to show it behind the RHS frame but I cannot a) see it or b) see big enough gap it could have sit in, nor any mouting points.


If anyone could point me in the right direction I would be really grateful.
 

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From the diagrams it would appear to be inside of the left side frame plate near the main frame mount.

The default position for the valve is full open (spring loaded). Check into a "ServoBuddy" to plug into the harness and replace the whole mess.

I'm surprised you didn't have a fault code before if the cables were disconnected/removed. Maybe it already has a ServoBuddy and that has failed?
 

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Ed, from a guy who proclaims men do not read procedures...it is hard for him to tell his left from his right..

let alone go here: Team Double 3 Racing | MV Agusta and download his manual (which we know reveals all)....

or use the SEARCH function to find myriad threads on the subject.
 

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@;
Ed, from a guy who proclaims men do not read procedures...it is hard for him to tell his left from his right..

let alone go here: Team Double 3 Racing | MV Agusta and download his manual (which we know reveals all)....

or use the SEARCH function to find myriad threads on the subject.
Now be nice...... he's a newbie. :wink2:
 

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Ed, I was being nice in his introductory post....
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
From the diagrams it would appear to be inside of the left side frame plate near the main frame mount.

The default position for the valve is full open (spring loaded). Check into a "ServoBuddy" to plug into the harness and replace the whole mess.

I'm surprised you didn't have a fault code before if the cables were disconnected/removed. Maybe it already has a ServoBuddy and that has failed?
I thought the same, except I thought it would be on the RHS and it wasn't there. It is the right location, I think, because I found the mounting point on the inside of the frame. So I am thinking that, as you have suggested, there may be some sort of mod that has, maybe, broken. Now all I have to do is trace the cable...

Maybe the manual kindly supplied by the poster below will help. :)

EDIT - It was on the LHS I'll post some info below
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Ed, from a guy who proclaims men do not read procedures...it is hard for him to tell his left from his right..

let alone go here: Team Double 3 Racing | MV Agusta and download his manual (which we know reveals all)....

or use the SEARCH function to find myriad threads on the subject.
Thanks for the reply and the link to manual. I actually found the site through results on the subject so I have been reading them. I have not found one which goes along the lines of "all the bits that make the exhaust valve operate seem to be missing (we'll I think they are missing because I have not found them where I expected them to be)". The diagram I cut and pasted into the thread were from one of those threads. The point was I was stating

1) I have read this
2) I cannot find the motor where this says it is supposed to be
3) Can you help?

Incidentally, I did find the reference to these manuals in another thread and started to read through them. I *think* that is the manual I got the *second* diagram from.

The problem is I am not finding things that are supposed to be there. It is easier to find thing broken then to not find things that are missing because not finding them where you are looking might be correct IYSWIM

Aside from that; RTFM doesn't make for an interactive and useful forum :/
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Well, I found the servo. I had to lift the tank off to see it as it is really well hidden. Photos attached which are taken from the LHS with the tank lifted and the LHS fairing removed. The easiest way to explain is that it is mounted the other side of (and to the left as you are facing the LHS of the bike) of the small fuse box.

I have not worked out how to remove it yet. There is a bolt at the top and it feels like it is not attached at the opposite corner. In my case it looks like the cables to the valve were disconnected but the motor left behind. turning on the ignition does not make the motor rotate. I don't know yet if this is because the test is purely electrical and not mechanical (i.e. a voltage check) or it tries to rotate the valve as part of the test. I would have thought the latter as either could include a power test.

Next step is to check the voltage across the connector but getting that out of the servo is proving difficult as there is very little space to work.

If there is power to the connector, given the state of the valve and the lack of cables (and possibly motor) a ServoBuddy, suggested by @silentservice703 might be the answer.
 

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Isaac (May I assume that is your name), here are some detailed pictures taken by member @910BrutaleHydrogenNorway:

Exhaust Valve Actuator LocationC.jpg

Exhaust Valve Acuator MountingC.jpg

Exhaust Valve Actuator Internals.JPG

As you can see, from the pictures and the diagram you posted, the mounting bolts go through rubber grommets. It appears they then go to frame bolts. The lower mount is difficult to access but is on the diagonally opposite corner to the upper mount.

The picture I really wanted you to wee is the last one. It shows the internals of the actuator with massive corrosion and degradation that would seize the actuator and give your symptoms even if the actuator cables were disconnected from the unit as the actuator is frozen in place.

Chuck
 

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Thanks for the reply and the link to manual. I actually found the site through results on the subject so I have been reading them. I have not found one which goes along the lines of "all the bits that make the exhaust valve operate seem to be missing (we'll I think they are missing because I have not found them where I expected them to be)". The diagram I cut and pasted into the thread were from one of those threads. The point was I was stating

1) I have read this
2) I cannot find the motor where this says it is supposed to be
3) Can you help?

Incidentally, I did find the reference to these manuals in another thread and started to read through them. I *think* that is the manual I got the *second* diagram from.

The problem is I am not finding things that are supposed to be there. It is easier to find thing broken then to not find things that are missing because not finding them where you are looking might be correct IYSWIM

Aside from that; RTFM doesn't make for an interactive and useful forum :/
I have to respond to this. There is a standard when approaching motorcycle maintenance. LEFT and RIGHT are observed as if you are ON the bike riding. The manual clearly states this in the "How to Use This Manual" section. Your initial interaction with me left me with the opinion that you believe you are better than those who wrote the book. Frankly, that set me on edge.

This morning, I researched the Parts Manual, the Maintenance Manual, and searched the forum using the Advanced Search function in the TOOLS menu. I did this not because I was unsure of my skills as a MV Agusta mechanic, nor because I was unsure of my forthcoming answer to your query; but, I did it because I wanted to refresh my memory and find the correct answer - again. "Repetition is the key to learning." (H. G. Rickover)

That research took me all of 30 minutes. I enjoyed a nice cup of coffee doing it and I now have some archived pictures that are easier to access.

The point is, we get many questions on the forum from people who are too lazy to simply RTFM, IYSWIM.:smoking:
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
@silentservice703 Thanks for the photos. They look like the fuel tank has been lifted off which shows much better where it is. I propped the tank up which made it, ultimately, harder to remove. If you see from the photo, there is a plate behind the top bolt, the RHS has a bent flap, which is also bolted but not to the servo. This plate is actually a mounting bracket for the fuse box and relays. I managed to get the servo out by unscrewing the top servo bolt and the top bolt for the bracket, sliding the relays off the bracket and then bringing the whole thing underneath the top part of the frame. This gave me access to the bottom servo bolt.

I opened up the servo and the motor looks in perfect condition TBH (unlike the photo you posted) and, other than that it is difficult to see what could go wrong. I am seeing power from the cable when the bike ignition is switched on and the gears move freely. Next step is to see what the manuals (or the interwebs) say about the expected voltages on the wire and resistance across the motor socket (I couldn;t see anythign about this the first time I looked in the manual). I've already ordered a servo eliminator so it gives me something to do while I am waiting for the post.

P.S. - My name Isn't Isaac. Say the full username out loud :)
P.P.S. - You can still call me Isaac :)
 

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The voltages are originating from the ECU. There is a feedback circuit of sorts to tell the ECU what the motor is doing. I haven't found any good troubleshooting for the assembly.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I have to respond to this. There is a standard when approaching motorcycle maintenance. LEFT and RIGHT are observed as if you are ON the bike riding. The manual clearly states this in the "How to Use This Manual" section. Your initial interaction with me left me with the opinion that you believe you are better than those who wrote the book. Frankly, that set me on edge.
I am really confused as to how I l gave you the impression that I know more than the people that created the manual?? I also understand that left and right are relative to the seating position. My only point in the first post what that the exploded diagram appears to show that the servo is mounted on the RHS of the frame not the LHS. I also asked a friend of mine (who happens to be a considerably more experienced mechanic than me) have a look and he seemed to agree that the diagram appears to show the servo on the RHS. I totally agree that the picture shows the RHS as the front of the exploded diagram. At no time did I suggest there was anything wrong with the diagram only that to me it looks like the servo is mounted on the RHS not the LHS. - that is why I was looking for it on the RHS.

This morning, I researched the Parts Manual, the Maintenance Manual, and searched the forum using the Advanced Search function in the TOOLS menu. I did this not because I was unsure of my skills as a MV Agusta mechanic, nor because I was unsure of my forthcoming answer to your query; but, I did it because I wanted to refresh my memory and find the correct answer - again. "Repetition is the key to learning." (H. G. Rickover)
I too read through both manuals (I went back to the bike and removed the tank rather than searching the forum). I found very little of help (other than the diagram I mention above) in the parts manual and I found little of use in the maintenance manual.

That research took me all of 30 minutes. I enjoyed a nice cup of coffee doing it and I now have some archived pictures that are easier to access.
I had tea - I've ran out of coffee :/

The point is, we get many questions on the forum from people who are too lazy to simply RTFM, IYSWIM.:smoking:
Yeah, I get that. I assure you, I did try and find information online (I didn't use the advanced search on the forum, maybe next time I should). I also get that it can be tiresome when it looks like people are just TL;DR just tell me because I can't be arsed to look.

I can assure you I had spent a considerable amount of time researching before I asked. OK I get I could have used the forum search better but I am new to the site and haven't found my way around yet. I had read some posts before posting but they did not tackle the question I was asking.

Can we be friends now? :)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The voltages are originating from the ECU. There is a feedback circuit of sorts to tell the ECU what the motor is doing. I haven't found any good troubleshooting for the assembly.
Thanks for looking. I am having the same problem. I did find common and then 5V on one line which is encouraging. (mV on the others) *shrug*

*EDIT* Hoping this might shed some light http://www.mvagusta.net/forum/129-maintenance-tech-issues-3-cyl-models/120161-exhaust-servo-eliminator-needed-f3-800-a.html
 

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[MENTION=8550]

P.S. - My name Isn't Isaac. Say the full username out loud :)
P.P.S. - You can still call me Isaac :)
I did say your name phonetically when I first saw you show up as a new member. I almost banned you as a SPAM portal simply due to that moniker. Proclaiming oneself as an undereducated (illiterate via means of grammar) "HUNT" did little to enamor me with your plight.

My only point in the first post what that the exploded diagram appears to show that the servo is mounted on the RHS of the frame not the LHS. I also asked a friend of mine (who happens to be a considerably more experienced mechanic than me) have a look and he seemed to agree that the diagram appears to show the servo on the RHS.
Here is how I interpreted the diagram. That coupled with pictures of the actuator in the service manual confirm the left side.

2013 F4 frameC.jpg
 

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As to Ed's post showing the internals of the motor and discussing voltages: the wiring diagram shows where the pins are and what the sources are.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
As to Ed's post showing the internals of the motor and discussing voltages: the wiring diagram shows where the pins are and what the sources are.
Am I missing something? I cannot see a wiring diagram? I looked at the diagrams in the service manual from the racing team site but I could not find anything going to the servo in the electrical section either.
 

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Actuator Wiring

Section E is electrical.

The wiring diagram is on page 5.

I highlighted wires with no particular color association just to show the connection.

Actuator wiring.JPG
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Hi everyone! I've been away for a bit and haven't had a chance to update one progress.

I fitted a HealTech servo eliminator, turned on the ignition and the fault disappeared (woo!) I thought that was the end of it. I didn't actually start the bike at the time. Later I turned the ignition on again, started the engine and, at first the error still did not appear. After about 30 seconds to a minute, it came back on. I stopped the engine, too the key out, put it back in, error gone. Start the engine and the error comes back after about the same period. Very weird.

I have since had a scan of the forum to see if anyone else has seen this problem but I cannot see anything. I have been riding the bike with the fault as I know it's not going to cause any damage but I am a bit pissed off this did not fix the problem.

One thing I am wondering is if it is the wrong MV servo eliminator? Maybe the ECU is testing for something post start that this servo eliminator does not manage?

This is the site https://www.healtech-electronics.com/products/ese/

The model I bought is ESE-A01 which appears to be the correct one, according to the site :/
 
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