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Discussion Starter #1
Vehicle:
2010 F4 1+1
approx. 5300 miles


History:
Just changed the oil to AMSoil 20w50 on 3/27/2014 (previous oil viscosity unknown)...and ran fine for next 4 days on street/normal freeway. No leaks and ran cooler and noticed smoother shifting.

Symptoms/problem:
After stretching her out to approx 130 MPH on the 5th morning after oil change...i notice a "new rattle noise" at the light and believe its the "Duc dry clutch" sound....so i'm also thinking it may be the cam timing chain tensioner (the teeth on the gears are grinding)?

Before checking forum, I took the valve cover off because rattle sounded it was coming from there but everything appeared in order. After reading through the posts, it seems this was an issue with earlier F4's and the tensioners. Of course I have the "newer" (black housing) tensioner.

My question:

1. Can an oil change cause the tensioner to act up/go bad especially after 5300 miles ?

2. Is there a reset/check for the cam timing chain tensioner WITHOUT having to resync the head cams to the cam in the crank case ?....want to avoid removing the valve cover if possible...can the tensioner be reset/taken out and put back in to stop "the teeth" on the gears from grinding

or....

if tensioner is good....will i have to loosen/take it out and "set the timing"....by getting the valve cover off and resync with the crack case cam ?
 

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There has been a few cases of timing chain tensioners acting up on the >Y10 bikes, I would take the bike back to the dealer if still under warranty, and if at all possible if I where you.

Are you sure it's timing chain rattling, I would drain my oil and look for metal first.

If you're going to do this work yourself, please download the workshop manuals and go through it properly, you have to lock the crank in place to remove timing chain tensioner. You need to open cam cover to do this as safe as possible.

Why are you using such a thick oil ?
 

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Dons, 20w50 is a recommended viscosity...especially in warmer climates.

I run 20w50 in all my bikes, even here in the North East USA.
 

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Yeah sorry Chuck, I've just been going through the F3 manual for another guy and for some reason I thought the >10 F4's also run thinner oil compared to the <10 bikes.
 

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No worries mate!
 

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At what point should you adjust the tensioner. I have a some noise at cold start which goes away after a couple of minutes warm up.

Oh and it's got 27K


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You don't adjust it, it does it automatically, check the service schedule for when it should be replaced. Okay I just checked.
It looks like it should be checked and replaced if needed every 12K, same as the timing chain.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thank you all,

I dont know for sure if its the tensioner but from all the reading i've done...sounds like it....


Also when I give throttle/rev engine=faster/slightly louder rattle...so its definitely tied to engine rotation/speed....other than the cams linked with the timing chain...I cant think of anything else moving with engine rev (even at Neutral).

Was also thinking to drain and check oil again also...

I have a mechanic friend that knows the engine stuff and I know the bike anatomy and the manuals and we feel comfy going in at it...but u mention as long as I LOCK the crank case cam....I can safely remove/inspect/replace the tensioner...thats what I was hoping, Thank you...will let you know in a couple days :(
 

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Unfortunately, I have gone through a few tensioners in 42,000 kms. My bike came std with the older style tensioner that has a history of breakages, so I changed to the F4 later style when it gave trouble.
My ones have all jammed, so that the plunger doesn't move in or out, causing the chain to be loose. The tensioner has a ratchet which means that it can only extend as the chain gets loose.

I have noticed that when the tensioner jams, there is a noticeable roughness that can be felt through the pegs and bars in the 4600-4900 rpm range.

Do not be tempted to pull the tensioner without locking the timing. The design of the motor is such that the chain will drop off the lower sprocket and move the timing. Been there, done that, there is no shortcut!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Right on !..Thanks for the insight !...No shorts seems to be the way when messing with ol girl...but don't wanna touch her where I don't have to !

Donsy...

I'm listening and learning...what are the symptoms of a faulty clutch basket ?...Faulty clutch basket effects shifting?.. and i'm not having any problems with shifting.

To further describe "the noise"...Have you ever taped a plastic "anything" to the fork on a bicycle so that it "flaps" onto the spoke and makes a "slapping" sound...that's what it sounds like.
 

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Unfortunately, I have gone through a few tensioners in 42,000 kms. My bike came std with the older style tensioner that has a history of breakages, so I changed to the F4 later style when it gave trouble.
My ones have all jammed, so that the plunger doesn't move in or out, causing the chain to be loose. The tensioner has a ratchet which means that it can only extend as the chain gets loose.

I have noticed that when the tensioner jams, there is a noticeable roughness that can be felt through the pegs and bars in the 4600-4900 rpm range.

Do not be tempted to pull the tensioner without locking the timing. The design of the motor is such that the chain will drop off the lower sprocket and move the timing. Been there, done that, there is no shortcut!

Jon
Sounds like I need to have a "how to" chat with you over a six pack (or a red) and a copy of the manual :)
Steve


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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Sorry for the delay in updates...been working and celebrated my birthday... and again thank you ALL for all the help ! ! !...

So i drained the oil and nothing out of the ordinary there...all clean (no metal) and wife still complains about all the drips on the floor ! !

So I took the head cover off again :( ...and this time also got to the phonic wheel and spun her around...and saw the dam timing chain with slack all over the place and even looked like it was buckling...will post a video when I can get it from my buddy's phone...So now to the damn tensioner ! !

So the pic below is how i found the tensioner...in too far and stuck there !!!!!....So how the heck did it get pushed inwards causing all the slack on the chain????....(See next post)

...also please comment on the release spring...it didn't come out but...should it be angled and crammed in there like that...the release worked fine and i would straighten it but thats how it 'preferred" to want to live in there. Just curious if that's an issue waiting to happen ?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The teeth of the tensioner ! !...So it appears damaged...I zoomed up close using my phone and also scraped it with flat head to make sure and the tooth is there....Im thinking its the current position and just worn.

So after lubing her up a bit...and some testing, she extends and releases just fine...im putting her back together and will ride her later today so will possibly update tonight ! !

FYI...I ordered a replacement from Pro-Italia last Saturday and they responded with "Holding for parts 10-15 days"...which means "we're ordering from mother Italy"...and of course also promptly accepting my $304 ! ! !
 

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Thanks for letting us know the outcome. It confirms my situation is not unique. I am starting to consider if the spring tension that pushes the plunger out is too weak.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well the patient lives again and she did great ! ! ! Noise is gone and she sounds awesome!!!

Apparently I'm leaking oil from the tensioner housing now and got some gasket sealer for it...I thought I noticed they had some type of sealant on it when I got it out and spaced it off when I put it back in...So now hopefully I can get my $$$ back and cancel the part from Pro-Italia....I figure no part has come to me so no restocking fee for me ?

Again...thank you ALL for all the help in resolving ! ! !
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Do you think you can replace just the spring...to give more force to extend out ?...

Im think with my situation...somehow it scraped the teeth and got pushed in...then just got stuck there...it was "tough" to move when I 1st got it out and after lubing and forcing/testing in and out a few times....it seemed fine.
 

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I think that the sequence goes something like weak spring causes plunger not to extend, then the chain slap whilst loose causes the ratchet to jam on the plunger.

I have recently manually adjusted mine by inserting a longer centre rod and carefully screwing the centre bolt in without fitting the spring until I could hear the plunger move by 1 tooth of the ratchet. Then I pulled the longer rod out and reassembled with the original rod and spring.

After 42000 km, having carefully measured the tensioner plunger extension, I have calculated that the chain has not stretched enough to cause worry, so I am anticipating that I will only need to check the tensioner every 6 months or so.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
That's good to know when/if I start having that issue...just manually extend the tensioner approx every 6 months until I need to replace all the components.
 
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