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Discussion Starter #1
I have now fitted my RG3 ecu, and despite the shite weather have managed a few runs out, I am pleased to say the ecu totally removes the 5000rpm "surge" that more than a few people have commented on :) .

My bike at the moment has RG3/link pipe and a Power Commander (which I have loaded a "zero" map into) if you go this route you will need to have the ecu set up via the VDSTS system at your local dealer.hhmmm! I don't "do" dealers so I bought the std VDSTS system, It's quite easy to use and you must have the ecu set, if you don't you will end up with a 2200rpm idle :jsm:

I have had a few short trips out on the bike, with the idle co set at 4.0%co it is a little rich as the idle sometimes hunts before stabilising, I will drop that down to 3.0%co. The bike rides faultless, I spent most of my time out there looking for this 5000rpm "surge" I can not detect it at all, throttle response is v good, no flat spots anywhere.

It still has the strange response when opening the throttle very slowly from closed (1000 owners will know this well) were the revs will lift from 1200 at idle to 1800, and also drop the same, and I now know why it does this!

Performance wise? It is very hard to tell, it's very slippy on the roads over here at the moment, but the midrange does feel stronger, and I also shot backwards down the seat a few times, something which has not happened before.

I will get the bike on the dyno early next year and all will be revealed, I know the dyno and A/F ratio may tell me a different story, but the fuelling does feel very good, and if I did not have a PC I doubt I would be rushing out to get one.

I purchased mine through emoto, I believe those hard working boys may try and get some kind of a package together to sell the ecu and VDSTS together (but don't hold me to that!)

The results are far better than just the PC, it does look like the RG3 ecu (race ecu-Italian description) is the way forward, I will post the dyno and whether it needs a PC soon, but overall I am very very pleased.
:drummer: :drummer: :drummer: :drummer: :drummer: :drummer:
 

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Good post Mike, thanks for detailed analysis, I for one want to explore this route, had RG3' on my S, loved the sound and overrun bubbling, hows the sound on the R?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
agusta01 said:
Good post Mike, thanks for detailed analysis, I for one want to explore this route, had RG3' on my S, loved the sound and overrun bubbling, hows the sound on the R?
The more aggressive cams or cam timing makes them sound, well, more aggressive I suppose, or more "angry" than the S :naughty:
 

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great post . im stalling changing mine from stock , well for one reason i see no need to yet , an i dont wanna be a pioneer with this bike . id rather let others do the R an D ing . im looking for the best plug an play , to use a computer term , for my bike .
 

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1000r

Excellant news mike.

It looks like i will be getting the race ECU too the pcIII does make a diffrence but not enough in regards to the 5000Rpm issue.

Time to speak with emotouk

cheers
 

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good write up...and i don't even have an R ;) but for my curious mind, why DOES it do the strange low rpm slow throttle opening response?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
style_one said:
good write up...and i don't even have an R ;) but for my curious mind, why DOES it do the strange low rpm slow throttle opening response?
It's a secret :laughing:

Seriously though, when the VDSTS is connected it shows rpm, temp, air temp. throttle pos'n. AND ignition timing,

When the bike is at idle the throttle shows (when set correctly) 2.3% open and the ignition at -10deg or 10deg ATDC (after top dead centre)

If you slowly/gently open the throttle the % open rises slowly and nothing else alters. then at 3.2% throttle opening the ignition timing jumps to 2 to 3 deg BTDC and the rpm jumps to 1800ish.

Slowly closing the throttle see's the throttle opening decrease untill it gets to 2.7% open, then the ignition timing jumps back to -10 or 10 ATDC and the revs drop straight to 1200ish.

Maybe Airfuel has some input here :stickpoke ? I think they have done this to stabilize the idle, a lot of early air cooled 911's also had ignition timing at idle "ATDC" maybe also to help the starter motor load? :)
 

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there's a seperate idle spark 'map', which is just a single code line with an ignition timing value at each rpm break point. all the mv have quite a lot of retard at idle. if you start raising the timing on the idle map they start idling much higher. meaning you have to wind in the air bleeds and lean the trimer, etc, to keep everything else the same, so it offsets the whole fuel map in that sense.

the idle on / off thing you probably have seen in the software (i think it shows that - can't remember in the vdsts, the ducati stuff does) shows where they go from 'idle' to the main spark map. this varies with the specific mapping, and is engine size related usually, as the idle setting changes with engine and throtle body size - eg, 750 at 1.5 degreees, 1000 at 2.3 degrees.

i've tried playing with the idle map and main spark maps to equalize them to stop the rpm jump thing, but it often doesn't help much.

personally i think it's part of the stalling problem. lots of the late ducati have the same idle retard, and i really don't understand why they do it. maybe it helps clean up hydrocarbon emissions at idle. seems very common on any late weber marelli mapping. one of the ducati fixes for the big cam 749s models is about opening the cam seperation to increase the cylinder pressure at idle, which you could also do by increasing the spark advance.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
brad black said:
there's a seperate idle spark 'map', which is just a single code line with an ignition timing value at each rpm break point. all the mv have quite a lot of retard at idle. if you start raising the timing on the idle map they start idling much higher. meaning you have to wind in the air bleeds and lean the trimer, etc, to keep everything else the same, so it offsets the whole fuel map in that sense.

the idle on / off thing you probably have seen in the software (i think it shows that - can't remember in the vdsts, the ducati stuff does) shows where they go from 'idle' to the main spark map. this varies with the specific mapping, and is engine size related usually, as the idle setting changes with engine and throtle body size - eg, 750 at 1.5 degreees, 1000 at 2.3 degrees.

i've tried playing with the idle map and main spark maps to equalize them to stop the rpm jump thing, but it often doesn't help much.

personally i think it's part of the stalling problem. lots of the late ducati have the same idle retard, and i really don't understand why they do it. maybe it helps clean up hydrocarbon emissions at idle. seems very common on any late weber marelli mapping. one of the ducati fixes for the big cam 749s models is about opening the cam seperation to increase the cylinder pressure at idle, which you could also do by increasing the spark advance.
Brad, Thanks for that, you may have answered another long time MV question!! with some early F4's it was very hard to open the throttle once you shut it to enter a corner etc, The bike just sucked the throttles closed, maybe they have done this retarded ignition thing at idle so the idle screws and also butterflies need to be opened further, which would lose vacuum and make the throttle easier to open under the above mentioned circumstances? :)
 

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I have, also, today fitted the RG3 silencer, the mid-pipe and the R-ECU, all bought from MV Corse. An MV and Ducati certified workshop optimised the ECU/Ingection via the VDSTS system (the Technician said that the ECU is the same way controlled as by Duc 999).

I rode the bike for about 100Km (no rain), and as Mikef4uk wrote, there isn’t anymore the 5000rpm "surge".

I am very impressed, the throttle response is totally changed. The engine is running smooth and is willing to take rpms. It is a pleasure to play with quick gear changes, up and down.

Sound? At 10000rpms you are in ecstasy.

Performance? I don’t know. The bike is accelerating heavily!

In Greece the traffic control system is a little bit loose. It means you can drive as you wish unless you have Insurance. For sure the system “RG3 open sillencer/no Cat mid-pipe/Corse Ecu” is noisy and pollutes the environment more, but I would say : it is a necessity!

tvass


P.S. the idle on / off thing exists
 

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Discussion Starter #12
tvass said:
I have, also, today fitted the RG3 silencer, the mid-pipe and the R-ECU, all bought from MV Corse. An MV and Ducati certified workshop optimised the ECU/Ingection via the VDSTS system (the Technician said that the ECU is the same way controlled as by Duc 999).

I rode the bike for about 100Km (no rain), and as Mikef4uk wrote, there isn’t anymore the 5000rpm "surge".

I am very impressed, the throttle response is totally changed. The engine is running smooth and is willing to take rpms. It is a pleasure to play with quick gear changes, up and down.

Sound? At 10000rpms you are in ecstasy.

Performance? I don’t know. The bike is accelerating heavily!

In Greece the traffic control system is a little bit loose. It means you can drive as you wish unless you have Insurance. For sure the system “RG3 open sillencer/no Cat mid-pipe/Corse Ecu” is noisy and pollutes the environment more, but I would say : it is a necessity!

tvass


P.S. the idle on / off thing exists
That's great news, It's always better to have 2 opinions the same, do you also feel the midrange is stronger?

:drummer: :drummer: :drummer: :drummer: :drummer:
 

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This is superb stuff!

My description of the 5000rpm thing might be,- Bike's cranked over in a 180degree turn. You want to hold steady throttle as you corner. Corner tightens up, so you reduce the throttle a bit, still cranked over. Corner eases, so you want to pick up on the throttle again. DREADED 5Krpm(!),- You open the throttle, Nothing happens. You open the throttle a little more....lag...lag...THEN... SURGE! Bike kinda jerks forward,- corrective action required!! Smooth line through corner is now officially History!

Analogy might be the early Audi Quattro Turbo Rally Car's. Someone described their throttle response as if the someone had replaced the cable with a piece of elastic....

This is my read on it,- and I'm actually making it sound more dramatic than it actually is....

In some ways this makes the R/Senna more challenging/fun to ride, in my idiotic opinion. This and the tendency of the Bikes to stand-up while trail-braking into a corner.... much harder to ride than my R1 LE, much more satisfying when you get it right....!

I WILL be contacting eMoto about their setup!

Kevin
 

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Mike,Cool setup again !!. I have fitted the RG3 ECU chip on my S model and the bike sounds even better. Just a quick hint. If you want to take it further just try to remove the EBS function and the bike will rev up much much better. I drove the bike with the new chip and then we removed the EBS and the bike it even sounds different. I am looking for a non EBS chip though cause when you close the throttle it makes serious backfires. It seems that when you close the throttle the fueling goes lean and thus the backfires. Also I am thinking of a slipper clutch (STM) installation to compensate the EBS function. I also have the idle going to 1800 rpm and then back to 1200. I hope that the backfires won't affect the reliability of the engine. My technician said it won't.
 

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boussias,

What you said about the EBS is really interesting. At the first service on my bike, I asked the Technician to try and resolve the 5Krpm thing... balance throttle bodies etc...

He told me later that everything was within factory specs and the 5K issue was related to the EBS thing kicking in and there was no way to resolve it and remain within service specs of the bike.

I have to say I was really sceptical! I thought I was being schmoozed!

Your input makes a lot of sense.... and seems to vindicate the guy.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
RobP said:
Cool, Thanks Mike. Which one are you using?

Just the basic "standard" one rob, it does as much as the others buyonly on one bike ecu type, it will do both of my ecu's, so presumeably will do any 1000R
 
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