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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
mmmm a little dissapointing really, my bike has RG3's,no cat, and a power commander, the power curve is not as smooth as my old "S" it is virtually identical all the way from 2000-1000rpm and to be fair if anything is slightly lower which makes MV's claim of "at least 10bhp more throughout the rev range" a total 100% lie, and only shows more between 10000 and 12500rpm where it is much wider than the 1000S and higher, my old "S" made 160 ish and the new "R" makes 165ish.

The worst part of all is on very small throttle openings in the 2,5 and 10% openings where it literally looks like two humped camel up tp 5000 rpm, it's obviously a noise/emission thing but it does make the bike feel shit :ahhh: :bawling:

I see MV are offering RG3 with a new ecu for the R, I wonder if that would sort it?
 
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I think all Italian "R" bikes run like crap down low. For instance the 748S runs nice in the lower RPM range, the 748R runs like crap down low. Its the race cams that does it. I'm sure a remapping of the FI and Ignition should help to smooth things out.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Glarepro said:
I think all Italian "R" bikes run like crap down low. For instance the 748S runs nice in the lower RPM range, the 748R runs like crap down low. Its the race cams that does it. I sure a remapping of the FI and Ignition should help to smooth things out.
It's just spent 4 hours on the dyno having it's fuel re-mapped.............and the lower part is still shit, my old "S" with "old" ecu was better
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Glarepro said:
Did remap the ignition as well?
No, that's not possible without the special equipment
 
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When you redo the ignition as well it should run good all the way through.
 

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mikef4uk said:
mmmm a little dissapointing really, my bike has RG3's,no cat, and a power commander, the power curve is not as smooth as my old "S" it is virtually identical all the way from 2000-1000rpm and to be fair if anything is slightly lower which makes MV's claim of "at least 10bhp more throughout the rev range" a total 100% lie, and only shows more between 10000 and 12500rpm where it is much wider than the 1000S and higher, my old "S" made 160 ish and the new "R" makes 165ish.

The worst part of all is on very small throttle openings in the 2,5 and 10% openings where it literally looks like two humped camel up tp 5000 rpm, it's obviously a noise/emission thing but it does make the bike feel shit :ahhh: :bawling:

I see MV are offering RG3 with a new ecu for the R, I wonder if that would sort it?

Mike, wanna trade your R with me S?? :naughty: :naughty: :laughing:

But it does make me wonder if you're better off with a fine tuned F4-S with wheels and breaking upgrades (lightweight brembos or marchesinis and radial breaks) or with an F4-R?
 

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just think of the 2000 750. it took a minute to get some kinks out in fueling and other things. this is a brand new ecu, with new head. they put all that money in that machine to flow that head so in the END i bet it will blow the "s" model away. not so much in tremendous more HP, but smoothness, torque and delivery. you just got the first gen. i would have to imagine the head makes a difference, and the ecu will continue to be explored by MV and the aftermarket. i get the feeling a PCIII won't be necessary when they get crackin on that ECU programming.

but that's my opinion. no regrets though right mike?
 
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You cant get the best out of an FI remapping unless you redo the ignition mapping as well. Dude once you redo the Ignition Mapping together with the FI mapping your bike will not only run smoother down low and all the way through the RPM range, but it will also have a stronger top end hit. It has to if the R has racier cams then the S. Its never going to run as smooth down low as an S because thats just the nature of the beast when you have Racier cams, but you should be able to get it to run smoother then its running right now once you redo the ignition mapping. But in the end it will leave the S in the dust. Not by a WHOLE LOT, but enough to notice a top end advantage. :grin:
Im sure that MV will come out with an updated ECU that has the FI and Ignition Mapping sorted out properly soon enough, but if you cant wait till then then find a way to redo the ignition mapping and you should be able to smooth out that rough bottom end.
 

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Glarepro said:
You cant get the best out of an FI remapping unless you redo the ignition mapping as well. Dude once you redo the Ignition Mapping together with the FI mapping your bike will not only run smoother down low and all the way through the RPM range, but it will also have a stronger top end hit. It has to if the R has racier cams then the S. Its never going to run as smooth down low as an S because thats just the nature of the beast when you have Racier cams, but you should be able to get it to run smoother then its running right now once you redo the ignition mapping. But in the end it will leave the S in the dust. Not by a WHOLE LOT, but enough to notice a top end advantage. :grin:
Im sure that MV will come out with an updated ECU that has the FI and Ignition Mapping sorted out properly soon enough, but if you cant wait till then then find a way to redo the ignition mapping and you should be able to smooth out that rough bottom end.
please educate me
how do you have someone re-map the ignition and the FI
there is not a power commander for both...... or is there?

sorry for the amateur question



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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Glarepro said:
You cant get the best out of an FI remapping unless you redo the ignition mapping as well. Dude once you redo the Ignition Mapping together with the FI mapping your bike will not only run smoother down low and all the way through the RPM range, but it will also have a stronger top end hit. It has to if the R has racier cams then the S. Its never going to run as smooth down low as an S because thats just the nature of the beast when you have Racier cams, but you should be able to get it to run smoother then its running right now once you redo the ignition mapping. But in the end it will leave the S in the dust. Not by a WHOLE LOT, but enough to notice a top end advantage. :grin:
Im sure that MV will come out with an updated ECU that has the FI and Ignition Mapping sorted out properly soon enough, but if you cant wait till then then find a way to redo the ignition mapping and you should be able to smooth out that rough bottom end.
No I doubt it, MV HAVE to put these quirks in to get the bike through the emission and noise tests, you can buy an "RG3" ecu from them for around £350, or Ferracci apparantly has the equipment to remap the ignition. The powere curve on Wide Open Throttle does look quite smooth now and certainly nothing like Peets that he posted, although the bumpy bits at the lower end of Peets are similar to mine at low throttle openings.

According to MV's advertising the "R" has an increase of 10 bhp over the "S" throughout the rev range, well, mine doesn't, and like I said at some points it's lower, the only real gain is the top of the power curve is a lot longer and flatter than the "S" but I dare say it doesn't live there very often.

The cams are different between the "S" and "R" and so are the chainwheels, oddly enough the exhaust cam chain wheel is the same as a Tamburini...
 
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Hmmm... Interesting. Well if you can figure out a way to remap the Ignition too (maybe get the same equiptment that Ferracci has or something like it that will work) and have someone dyno tune it who knows what they are doing then you should be able to smooth out the bottom as best that can be done with a bike running HOT Cams, and fill those emmision holes and keep a good HP Gain throughout the Rev range ALL the way to the top. Its just a matter of finding the right equipment to do it with in this case. But to only do the Fuel Mapping without doing the Ignition Mapping will not give you the best possible results. Both must be done together on the dyno. Then and only then can you be certain that you are tuning your motor to its absolute best!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
odonata said:
Mike, just curious, how did you break in your bikes? both the S & the R?
I broke them both in the same way, unfortunately after todays dyno it was raining so I came straight home, Saturday should be quite a nice day here, so I should get a good ride in and see just how smooth the bike is, hopefully I will be slightly happier then :) I'll also get a good run with my mate on his 1000S which will be interesting :naughty:
 

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when i put my r on the dyno and put the sniffer up thr exhaust the a/r was not that far out so the flat spots are almost certain caused by ignition timing i have order the rg3 and ecu for 1161 pounds that will sort the fuelling and timimg out they said the bike will fly we will see four weeks wait for the pipe :moped:
 

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Discussion Starter #16
tubsy 250 said:
when i put my r on the dyno and put the sniffer up thr exhaust the a/r was not that far out so the flat spots are almost certain caused by ignition timing i have order the rg3 and ecu for 1161 pounds that will sort the fuelling and timimg out they said the bike will fly we will see four weeks wait for the pipe :moped:
He spent a lot of time getting the fuelling just right, If you fit a Power Commander from the 1000S it will only read half revs :ahhh: BUT, if any one goes the pC route I have a "fix" from dynojet that makes it read full revs :drummer:

Please let me know if the ecu for the RG3 leaves any flat spots just under 5000rpm on a light throttle (up to 10% on the PC) where abouts are you?
 

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Glarepro said:
Hmmm... Interesting. Well if you can figure out a way to remap the Ignition too (maybe get the same equiptment that Ferracci has or something like it that will work) and have someone dyno tune it who knows what they are doing then you should be able to smooth out the bottom as best that can be done with a bike running HOT Cams, and fill those emmision holes and keep a good HP Gain throughout the Rev range ALL the way to the top. Its just a matter of finding the right equipment to do it with in this case. But to only do the Fuel Mapping without doing the Ignition Mapping will not give you the best possible results. Both must be done together on the dyno. Then and only then can you be certain that you are tuning your motor to its absolute best!!!
He knows all of this.

What is HOT, and what makes you believe the 1000R is HOT?

Comparing the Italian "R" bikes as you did before is quite silly.

You keep putting your foot in your mouth while trying to come off as some authority on these subjects.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
I've just stolen this graph from Moto one (hope he doesn't mind) to try and demonstrate the difference between a "S" and "R".
The yellow trace is an F4 1000S, they mess about with the emission crap below 3000rpm, and it can be seen on the trace messing about below 3000 rpm and rising steeply after 3000rpm.
The "R" does exactly the same thing at small throttle openings but this steep rise occurs at 5000rpm which is more in the slow driving useable rpm range, and it annoys me :rant:

The green trace is a 910R and the other two 750 Brutales with different headers,
 

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acruhl said:
He knows all of this.

What is HOT, and what makes you believe the 1000R is HOT?

Comparing the Italian "R" bikes as you did before is quite silly.

You keep putting your foot in your mouth while trying to come off as some authority on these subjects.
Dude, OMG!!! Here we go again!!! :conveyer:
Just read the claims by MV on the R when compared to the S. They are the ones who are claiming the R has been upgraded with more aggressive cam profiles, not me. I havent even got my hands on an R yet, let alone Dyno'd one or opened one up to see if what they claim is true. Hotter Cams means its not going to run as good down low as the S, plain and simple, unless MV comes out with Variable Cam timing. Thats what happenes when you run more aggressive cams, you sacrifice low end and midrange for top end, again, unless the motor has Variable Cam timing. You can smooth out the rough bottom and midrange by doing a fuel and ignition remapping and it will run better but still not as good down low as a motor with less aggressive cams, and anyone who is an expert on motors will tell you that I am right, and can elaborate.
What about you Acruhl? Care to Elaborate?? Now who's got their foot in their mouth. :confused:
 
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