[Me748]

Hi. I have looked up various posts on engine swaps do have the basics that most are interchangeable but require a varying degree of other parts / work to complete

My f4 750 track bike is now actually going well. I posted about a year ago with handling issues and fuelling.

I now have Maxton front and rear and one of X bikes ECUs. The handling is still a little compromised but it’s good enough to track day and the odd race.

The power is now though a little low (circa 110bhp).

I’d like a 1000 but I’ve put £ thousands into this bike and do not want another bike in the garage as I dont have space.

I have a line on a 312 motor which send like the best one but also seems to have more variation than the generation 1 1000s.

As I have the motec eco and it’s not a road bike I think Chris will be able to getting the fuelling to work etc with my loom, maybe cutting and shutting a few connections etc.

I see the throttle bodies are larger on the 312, will my 750 bodies bolt on accepting that I’ll lose a bit of power (which I don’t mind) or do I need the 312 bodies and if so will they then fit my air box etc?

I am assuming I’ll need a new exhaust but is that correct? I’ve a standard 750 header with Sil silencers at present. I imagine I’d get better gains a with a 1000 race header but if I can start out with my exhaust and upgrade later that would spread the cost

I have a Febur race rad on mine. I’d like to swap that over as it was expensive!

I have a mechanical slipper clutch fitted in mine (really was essential for track riding), I would like to swap that in or will the motec Ecu co trail the 312’s bleed system?

Chris at X Bike’s has my bike at the minute and would do the swap if I went ahead with it. I am sure he could make it work what ever but I’d like to know in advance what I’m letting myself in for and also which motor would be the best donor when balancing what needs to be done vs performance.

I am not keen on the 910 option as the power gains are not significant enough to justify the cost.

My 750 motor is fine so this is a luxury not a need, but I feel I do ‘need’ the go of a 1000 ?

I have asked Chris these questions as well and I’m sure he may have them all but I thought I’d ask the forum also as it seems you have done it all at some point!

Thanks

Pat.

 

[ViggenF4]

312 motor wont work with your current Microtec ECU, you will need the complete loom from a 312 with its ECU!!

I have a 910 motor in my 750, even though on paper the power difference is small, in real life you cant compare them, the 910 engine will walk over the 750 engine in every aspect.....

 

[Me748]

Hi. I think if my motor had blown and I had to change motor the 910 would be a good option if one came up at the right price but I fancy the oompth of a 1000.

I thought the microtec ECUs were essentially the same and could be programmed for various bikes but that was only an assumption.

Is it the 312 that’s more of a problem, would an earlier 1000 be more compatible?

As I mentioned I have asked Chris the same questions and I’m sure he will have chapter and verse on the matter

He did a great job on my 750 and always has time to talk anything MV.

Pat.

 

[ViggenF4]

Your ECU wont work with the 312 loom. Early 1000 with 16M, it will.

 

[theknurl]

?

Your 750 slipper clutch won't work on a 910 or 1000 motor.......
The mainshaft on the later motors is 2mm larger......you could split the cases and change the bearing
But the primary ratio is different on the later motors

 

[Me748]

Not looking so positive for the motor swap!

I would be happy with an early 1000 motor which my ecu seems likely to fit. The expense of another slipper clutch adds to the cost though.

The stm slipper clutch kit I have to my Evo 1 was originally for the Evo 2/3, the threaded end of the input shaft is different between the Evo 1 and 2/3. The former being 25mm and the latter 22mm.

STM were helpful and able to provide parts to make the clutch I had fit my bike. I dont know enough about the differences between the 1000 and the 750 but I wonder if STM could supply parts to make it fit.

I’ll see what else people feel needs to be swapped out for an early 1000 rather than the 312 which seems like a step too far, but already the additional work / unknowns is beginning to build into what I would call a fools errand!

 

[ViggenF4]

For early 1000, its straight swap. Just map the ECU.

 

[Me748]

Thanks Veggen. Just the slipper clutch that won’t transfer then.

I’ll keep an eye out for a 1000 motor in the UK (you don’t see many!)

Thanks

Pat

 

[ViggenF4]

Once in a while complete crashed bike appears, would be a good donor for you.

Hope you find what you looking for!

 

[X81]

312 motor wont work with your current Microtec ECU, you will need the complete loom from a 312 with its ECU!!

I have a 910 motor in my 750, even though on paper the power difference is small, in real life you cant compare them, the 910 engine will walk over the 750 engine in every aspect.....

No you don't. The M232 that i use to replace the 16M ecu allows conversion to sequential injection. Data is data so we can copy that across and fill in any fields that differ slightly. Sensor calibrations are the same.


You can do this conversion with only the addition of 2 parts. Throttle bodies for injector size and exhaust system due to potentially taller engine. The only part you'll not be able to run on the conversion will be the EBS system as the std wiring loom has no facility for it, the 1000S does though so you could upgrade a 1000S fully to 312 spec.

 

[esq'z me]

Or dump the EBS system altogether....

 

[X81]

Yeah exactly that, dump the EBS in favour of a decent slipper clutch. The EBS system is fantastic when properly controlled and a lovely addition to the bikes but its not big enough an addition to warrant the expesne of looms, valves etc.

 

[Me748]

Hi all. Just as a matter of update. Working with chris at X bikes it was concluded that his ECU that I had fitted to my bike would run the 09 312 1000 motor fine. In the end I needed the motor, the throttle bodies, velocity stacks and fuel hoses from the donor bike.

We didn’t try to keep my standard headers and Sil moto silencers SS even if they fitted they would likely to be restrictive and I found a full used Zard system at a good price so we fitted that.

My skipper clutch wouldn't fit so I went with a new EVR one. Having to buy a new slipper clutch put the final cost over my estimate but I kind of expected that...

All finished and making a little over 170bhp.

As always Chris did a great job, and it seemed to go without any drama.

Cant wait to get out on track now. Should be interesting with 60bhp more than last time I rode it!

I now have for sale an EVO1 750 motor, throttle bodies, standard de cat front pipes and Silmoto silencers, and a STM slipper for the EVO1 750 which I also have the parts for it to fit the EVO 2 and 3 and I think the early 1000 but I would need to check. The slipper clutch is in the motor but I imagine it will be better if I swap that out for the standard clutch to sell the motor and sell the slipper clutch on its own.

I am open to offers.

I am in Ashford, Kent in the UK.
Thanks

Pat

 

[theknurl]

Pat;
The 750 clutch basket only fits a 750......the primary gear reduction is different
On the liter bikes there are different size clutch hubs with different tooth counts
Same with the baskets
Ask me how I know

 

[DKDravis]

I might be interested in your 750 slipper clutch -- -- As far as I have understood the Close Ratio SR still has the small mainshaft like the other 750'ies (?)

oh, and the extra 60 bhp is not what will get you in trouble on the track .. it will be the torque of the 312, compared to a standard 750 ---

 

[esq'z me]

Although I would love to have the engine, can't justify it just for a spare...and shipping to US would be stupid money.
I sent you a PM about the clutch.

 

[Chrome]

Hi
I saw your bike at X-Bikes and it looks really interesting what you and Chris have done, as you don’t see many F4 track only bikes, it would be interesting to meet up at a trackday as I also have a 312R track bike that Chris has done a hell of a lot of work on