MOT failure in standard trim - MVAgusta.net
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-17-2018, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
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MOT failure in standard trim

Was at my local mot station (different problem not mot related) but he happened to mention that in standard trim the Turismo is a MOT failure with the new laws that were implied in May? due to the rear indicators being to close. Apparently it’s not only MVs that fall foul of this law but Honda Yamaha and no doubt most other makes as well on specific models.
Reassuring to know since I’m due an MOT by the 18th July
I know indicator spacing has always been included but largely ignored on MOTs, he did continue to say he was expecting to receive an email from DVSA to confirm whether to enforce the rule or not.


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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-17-2018, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red800 View Post
Was at my local mot station . . . but he happened to mention that in standard trim the Turismo is a MOT failure with the new laws that were implied in May? due to the rear indicators being to close. Apparently it’s not only MVs that fall foul of this law but Honda Yamaha . . .

I know indicator spacing has always been included but largely ignored on MOTs, he did continue to say he was expecting to receive an email from DVSA to confirm whether to enforce the rule or not.

Having a few bikes, I pay particular attention to MoT laws. (MoT = UK annual roadworthiness inspection and certificate.

Yes, new MoT testing guidelines came into effect on 20 May this year. Relevant to your post, the regs on indicator spacing are as follows:

Mandatory direction indicators must have minimum separation distances of:

solo motorcycles over 50cc – 300mm at the front and 240mm at the rear
solo motorcycles up to 50cc – 240mm at the front and 180mm at the rear
motorcycle combinations – 400mm at both front and rear
Repairs to lamps must be assessed for security, colour, light output and durability.

Defect Category = Major
Source:https://www.mot-testing.service.gov....#section_4.4.3

The tester has no option whether to enforce the rule or not (if he wants to keep his licence). There is no room for 'discretion' (although we all know testers who might 'overlook' some items). A 'Major' defect is an immediate fail.

Practically speaking, it would be difficult to put extensions onto the indicator stems - but possible. What we will see is temporary 'adaptation' in the same manner we rip off our 8 X 6 or 7 X 5 numberplates and replace them with the legal one solely for MoT.

I think some of our American friends would laugh at this because some USA states (it seems) allow motorcycles with no indicators at all.

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-17-2018, 02:27 PM
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Luckily, there is no MOT in Norway... Once the bike had passed its initial inspection that's it. However if you get stopped by the police or traffic authority and have illegal number plates or ridiculously loud pipes then you may get done especially for the number plates, but it's rare. I doubt they measure indicators, but as they passed the origins inspection, there is no issue here...


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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 03:19 AM
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Another reason to move to France... They officially adopt all sorts of EU rules as they are obliged to do, and then promptly ignore them.

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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 11:03 AM
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Do I understand the above correctly; that any bike that does not comply with a regulation/specification adopted after the bike (vehicle) was put on the road is in violation?
No "grandfathering" allowed?

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelrb View Post
Mandatory direction indicators must have minimum separation distances of:

solo motorcycles over 50cc – 300mm at the front and 240mm at the rear
solo motorcycles up to 50cc – 240mm at the front and 180mm at the rear
motorcycle combinations – 400mm at both front and rear
Repairs to lamps must be assessed for security, colour, light output and durability.

Defect Category = Major
Source:https://www.mot-testing.service.gov....#section_4.4.3
I'm a bit surprised as Euro rules said 180 mm separation at the rear. I remember @Gero HH succeed to get an information on this while I was looking at exploring integration of indicators in the tail light assembly.

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Another reason to move to France... They officially adopt all sorts of EU rules as they are obliged to do, and then promptly ignore them.
That triggers questions (any plan for that? :-D)… But let's stand corrected here: the only rule that was ignored for long was the unlimited power (even though they were requested multiple times by European instances to stop the 76kW french exception). Now, sooner or later, we will have a MOT here. It is coming, it is not a question, it will be applied soon…

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 12:11 PM
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And just had additional checks on the regulation in France (in french road regulation code). On the rear side, the distance separating the 2 blinkers must be at least 180mm. Minimal height is 350mm, maximal height is 1200mm, maximal distance from the rear of the bike of 300mm. In addition, blinkers must have their homologation indicated on the glass.


As per what I read here and there, those apply also to Switzerland (found multiple website indicating the same measures as we have in France). It is the same as in Germany, and is likely to apply all over Europe.

Now that being said, the rule may have changed. In this case, in France, what determinates the rule for the check is the homologation certificate date and not the registration date of the bike: any bike homologated before the new rule is applied would be legal here with the rule in place at the time it was homologated (which in fact makes perfectly possible to have here a car without safety belts (as long as it was homologated before the regulation was in place, and sold before the date where they were no longer allowed to be sold - there was a few years during which they could still sell the car without : other examples for Euro 3: they could sold them till the end of 2017, but they could not introduce Euro 3 model starting 01/01/2016).

Is there any indication of application date, and which vehicles it applies to?

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeps View Post
Do I understand the above correctly; that any bike that does not comply with a regulation/specification adopted after the bike (vehicle) was put on the road is in violation?

No "grandfathering" allowed?


The rule in question, I.E. indicator spacing has apparently been included but ignored since 1987 according to the tester, now here is the thing, the tester in question told me that a Honda owning friend of his failed his MOT due to indicator spacing, he contacted Honda UK and asked them to collect the bike and give him a full refund as they sold him a non conforming bike. Honda said it conformed to regulations when they sold it, he replied saying the rule has been included since 1987 so they had in fact sold him a non conforming bike, Honda have since been in touch with the dvsa to get clarity and that is the email that the tester is waiting for, sorry if it came across as if the tester was the only one to be expecting to get an exemption email. I will try and drop by tomorrow and get some more information.


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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red800 View Post
The rule in question, I.E. indicator spacing has apparently been included but ignored since 1987 according to the tester, now here is the thing, the tester in question told me that a Honda owning friend of his failed his MOT due to indicator spacing, he contacted Honda UK and asked them to collect the bike and give him a full refund as they sold him a non conforming bike. Honda said it conformed to regulations when they sold it, he replied saying the rule has been included since 1987 so they had in fact sold him a non conforming bike, Honda have since been in touch with the dvsa to get clarity and that is the email that the tester is waiting for, sorry if it came across as if the tester was the only one to be expecting to get an exemption email. I will try and drop by tomorrow and get some more information.


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Just found the EU rules documentation. It says :
"6.3. Direction indicator lamps
6.3.1. Number: Two per side.
6.3.2. Arrangement drawing: two front and two rear indicator lamps.
6.3.3. Position
Width:
The following apply simultaneously to front indicator lamps:
6.3.3.1.1.1. there must be a minimum distance of 240 mm between the illuminating surfaces;
6.3.3.1.1.2. they must be situated outside the vertical longitudinal planes that are tangent to the outer edges of the illuminating surfaces of the headlamp(s).
6.3.3.1.1.3. A minimum distance between the illuminating surfaces of the indicators and the closest dipped-beam headlamps of:
— 75 mm in the case of a minimum indicator intensity of 90 cd,
— 40 mm in the case of a minimum indicator intensity of 175 cd,
— 20 mm in the case of a minimum indicator intensity of 250 cd,
—≤ 20 mm in the case of a minimum indicator intensity of 400 cd.
6.3.3.1.2. The distance between the inner edges of the illuminating surfaces of the rear indicator lamps must be at least 180 mm.
6.3.3.2. Height: minimum 350 mm, maximum 1 200 mm above the ground.
6.3.3.3. Length: the distance towards the front between the transverse plane corresponding to the extreme longitudinal rearmost extremity of the vehicle and the centre of reference of the rear indicators must not exceed 300 mm."


That being said, it was valid up to 31/12/2015, and the TV/TVL from 2015/2016 are likely to have a homologation EC certificate based on those rules. Rules from later may apply for the Euro 4 models, but I can't find any different definition than those given above.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 03:30 PM
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Just out of curiosity, what is the actual distance between the rear flashers on a TV, the height might being also a factor (min. 300mm)?
Further those number plate holders and flashers are also on Rivale/ Stradale I think.
Dragster have the flashers integrated into the seat unit, kind of combined with the tail light, that would be an offence in many ways.
Flashers integrated into Tail lights is so far off to put You into Prison I would think.
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