F3 vs 675R video review - MVAgusta.net
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-15-2012, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
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F3 vs 675R video review

http://youtu.be/V_VhUYakVqk

Anyone else feel that it was a good comparison but not totally fair? That the F3 should be compared with a 675 and not an R with all the trick bits? Perhaps when the F3RR is out then a 675R comparo would make sense.

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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-15-2012, 10:38 AM
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I agree! But then somebody defended the comparison saying the bikes are along the same price line so therefore the comparison is just...IMO- they aren't comparing PRICES, they are comparing BIKES. So along those lines, maybe a Serie ORO-675R comparison would be more sufficient!
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-15-2012, 11:10 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F4-1NXS View Post
the F3 and the 675R are both - exactly the same price, or at least they are the exact same price in my local dearer who supplies both.


with that in mind, I would say it was reasonable to compare both, to determine which may or may not be the better buy. If you can also get an ORO-675R for the same price then bring that into the equation also.
Reasonable but not entirely fair and I am glad the reviewers do acknowledge that at the end of the review that it's a new bike and it will have it's fair share of teething troubles. Throw some top spec Brembos and Ohlins on there and I am sure the F3 will be almighty impressive. Lose the electronics get the fueling sorted. That would be my wishlist for the RR.

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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-15-2012, 12:09 PM
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Just some background info as we are the shop who supplies all the bikes to the magazines.

I personally put 135 miles on the bike before it went to Motorcyclist Magazine to get dyno tested. With more break in time I am sure the dyno numbers would improve.
I did not ride it on the track but did a fairly agressive street ride and had no problems with the quickshifter whatsoever.

The F3 definitely has more of a race bike feel than the Daytona and it likes to be reved. t is more like a I-4 in engine characteristics.

They tested the bike at Buttonwillow Raceway. A bad track to showcase the strong points of the F3. The F3 awards smooth, high momentum riding with high cornerspeeds. The pavement at Buttonwillow is SO bad that one cannot carry the cornerspeed you'd like - even on a big 1000. I have ridden Buttonwillow many times and I do enjoy the layout a lot, but I stopped going there about 2 or so years ago because the horrendous condition of the pavement. You simply cannot ride a motorcycle as fast as you'd like bcause all the apexes are torn up and the abundant pot holes, patches and tar snakes.

The bad condition of the track would interfere with the TC, i.e. the TC is reducing power constantly. So it makes sense that they turned faster laps with the TC off.

The torquier Daytona has an advantage on this poor tarmac because it can torque off the corners without needing to carry corner speed.

I am willing to bet money that the result would be different if they tested at a track like Thunderhill, Road Atlanta, or even Barber.

I set the suspension exactly like the fastest journos liked it at the press launch at New Jersey Motorsports. Tom Montano (ex Pro Thunder champion) from Cycle News and Bradley Adams from SportRider Mag. are both more accomplished riders than Ari Henning and Zach Courts from Motorcyclist Mag.
Also they told me that they would test at California Speedway and never mentioned Buttonwillow. These two tracks require substantially different set-ups for obvious reasons.

I dont know why mags still do 1/4 mile runs. They are meaningless for a sportbike which is designed to go fast around a real race track.

Ari Henning has difficulties adopting to different bikes. Once he finds a bike he likes, he wants every other bike to feel like that one. A good rider finds the strengths of each bike and adopts to that rather than concentrate on the weaknesses.

I do agree that the F3 needs a steering damper.

After riding the press bike at California Speedway, two AMA racers contacted us and inquired about racing the F3. They were over the moon about the performance of this bone stock F3.

Being directly involved with the magazine testing this year was a huge eye opener for me!
All I can say is be very critical of magazine tests. There is a lot going on behind the scenes that the reader of the test does not know!!
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-15-2012, 12:23 PM
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Thanks for that information Balz.

Hey, if they are comparing with a price bias, why not put either bike (or both) up against a used 1000 cc bike built about 3 or 4 years ago?

It ain't what you ride, it's the way you ride it.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-15-2012, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crash2much View Post
Just some background info as we are the shop who supplies all the bikes to the magazines.

I personally put 135 miles on the bike before it went to Motorcyclist Magazine to get dyno tested. With more break in time I am sure the dyno numbers would improve.
I did not ride it on the track but did a fairly agressive street ride and had no problems with the quickshifter whatsoever.

The F3 definitely has more of a race bike feel than the Daytona and it likes to be reved. t is more like a I-4 in engine characteristics.

They tested the bike at Buttonwillow Raceway. A bad track to showcase the strong points of the F3. The F3 awards smooth, high momentum riding with high cornerspeeds. The pavement at Buttonwillow is SO bad that one cannot carry the cornerspeed you'd like - even on a big 1000. I have ridden Buttonwillow many times and I do enjoy the layout a lot, but I stopped going there about 2 or so years ago because the horrendous condition of the pavement. You simply cannot ride a motorcycle as fast as you'd like bcause all the apexes are torn up and the abundant pot holes, patches and tar snakes.

The bad condition of the track would interfere with the TC, i.e. the TC is reducing power constantly. So it makes sense that they turned faster laps with the TC off.

The torquier Daytona has an advantage on this poor tarmac because it can torque off the corners without needing to carry corner speed.

I am willing to bet money that the result would be different if they tested at a track like Thunderhill, Road Atlanta, or even Barber.

I set the suspension exactly like the fastest journos liked it at the press launch at New Jersey Motorsports. Tom Montano (ex Pro Thunder champion) from Cycle News and Bradley Adams from SportRider Mag. are both more accomplished riders than Ari Henning and Zach Courts from Motorcyclist Mag.
Also they told me that they would test at California Speedway and never mentioned Buttonwillow. These two tracks require substantially different set-ups for obvious reasons.

I dont know why mags still do 1/4 mile runs. They are meaningless for a sportbike which is designed to go fast around a real race track.

Ari Henning has difficulties adopting to different bikes. Once he finds a bike he likes, he wants every other bike to feel like that one. A good rider finds the strengths of each bike and adopts to that rather than concentrate on the weaknesses.

I do agree that the F3 needs a steering damper.

After riding the press bike at California Speedway, two AMA racers contacted us and inquired about racing the F3. They were over the moon about the performance of this bone stock F3.

Being directly involved with the magazine testing this year was a huge eye opener for me!
All I can say is be very critical of magazine tests. There is a lot going on behind the scenes that the reader of the test does not know!!
Wow thanks for injecting your insight in to this thread because it makes a whole lot of difference! Awesome post!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_castle View Post
Thanks for that information Balz.

Hey, if they are comparing with a price bias, why not put either bike (or both) up against a used 1000 cc bike built about 3 or 4 years ago?
LOL well said.

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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-15-2012, 01:03 PM
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The F3 comparison to the 675R is fair, as both cost about the same and are targeted to the same buyers. Each of us has their own purchase criteria, so what any magazine says is just their opinion, no more, no less. For me, the look of the F3 is so far beyond the 675R execution; it's not that the 675R is bad, but the F3 is just so good. My new F3 should arrive in the next few weeks.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-15-2012, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rz33v4 View Post
The F3 comparison to the 675R is fair, as both cost about the same and are targeted to the same buyers. Each of us has their own purchase criteria, so what any magazine says is just their opinion, no more, no less. For me, the look of the F3 is so far beyond the 675R execution; it's not that the 675R is bad, but the F3 is just so good. My new F3 should arrive in the next few weeks.
Its not a matter of purchase criteria. All I am saying is if the F3 had top spec brembos and ohlins wonder if their list of things they dont like would have ebeen there at all or not. Of course everyone's purchase criteria will be different. I really like the Daytona but I like the F3 better just for it's noise and looks alone.

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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-15-2012, 04:20 PM
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It's all about individual purchase criteria; otherwise we would all buy whatever the magazines were fond of this month. Even though I'm an MV fan (My F3 is coming), I would never suggest they compare an Oro to a 675R, not at the $27k selling price. That's ridiculous for the Oro content, in my view.

What the F3 offers that the 675R does not is a new platform to start with, one that has more potential in the long run. As you've already seen, the 675R is a more complete package right now, but not once I (and many others, I'm sure) begin modifying the F3. Plus, as you said, the F3 is flat-out better looking, which is really hard to fix if it is wrong (which includes all Japanese sport bikes, in my book).
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-15-2012, 04:42 PM
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crashtoomuch, what were your suspension settings on the F3? And for what weight rider: Sag, Compression, Rebound?
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