F4 Clutch - WTF? - MVAgusta.net
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-19-2013, 07:58 PM Thread Starter
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F4 Clutch - WTF?

Hey there all.

I raced my 2009 F4 for the first time at Phillip Island on the weekend. Fantastic bike once you get it off the line, but bloody hell the clutch is crap off the start line.

It bites, it lets go, bites, grinds, crunches, farts then bites again. I tried race starts with a bit of throttle, I tried street starts with hardly any throttle. It's just crap. The worst on any bike I've ever experienced. I raced Ducatis for 5 years, and starts were always a strength of mine. Not any more.

How do you get these things off the start line? What is wrong with the clutch and how can I fix it?

Thanks!

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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-19-2013, 08:52 PM
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Hahaha, been down that road a couple of times.

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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-19-2013, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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What did you do to solve the problem Donsy? I'm not getting back on a Ducati.

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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-19-2013, 09:24 PM
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I started of by getting new plates Rich, but that only helped a bit, then I installed STM slipper clutch, this made a big difference for me. Problem is that you already have a slipper clutch so all I think of is some new plates.
HansPeter on the Forum races the 1078 in Europe, maybe we can ask him how he get's along.
I know early 1078's had problems with the slipper clutches, not sure what went wrong with them.

PS. How did you go on the weekend, did you get to beat Rob.....? Sorry I did not follow much, I was flat out on Saturday on this 312R that still leaks oil like a Ford, and Sunday I was up at the track playing Race Starter for Race Control.

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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-19-2013, 09:53 PM
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How does a slipper clutch help one get off the line?
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-19-2013, 09:59 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Donsy. Rob has the same trouble with his - he's been right through it and hasn't solved the problem. That means that it's not related to the slipper clutch. My bike only has 4000k's on it and was restricted to 8000rpm, so the clutch shouldn't even have any wear in it.

Had a great weekend. Rob and I were pretty level all weekend. I squibbed out on the wet races yesterday and left him to it so he ended up finishing 2nd C grade superbike which was awesome.

I ended up leading him in the last race right until the flag when he drafted me and got me on the line. The bikes are pretty even. I managed to beat Rob fair and square on Saturday arvo though, and he beat me in the first race on Saturday.

I'm just trying to come to terms with the difference in power delivery, and hitting the braking marker at turn 1 at 274kph. It's another dimension completely. I did however get the fastest lap for the weekend between us of 1:44.02. Rob's best was 1:44.2, so that's nice. My PB at the island by quite a bit. The bike is of course capable of so much more. I'm just not sure that I am.

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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-19-2013, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varium View Post
How does a slipper clutch help one get off the line?
I don't think it's the actual slipper clutch funtion obviously, but rather in the way the clutch operates, as you know the STM has a completely different operating method to the original clutch.

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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-19-2013, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varium View Post
How does a slipper clutch help one get off the line?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducati888 View Post
Thanks Donsy. Rob has the same trouble with his - he's been right through it and hasn't solved the problem. That means that it's not related to the slipper clutch. My bike only has 4000k's on it and was restricted to 8000rpm, so the clutch shouldn't even have any wear in it.

Had a great weekend. Rob and I were pretty level all weekend. I squibbed out on the wet races yesterday and left him to it so he ended up finishing 2nd C grade superbike which was awesome.

I ended up leading him in the last race right until the flag when he drafted me and got me on the line. The bikes are pretty even. I managed to beat Rob fair and square on Saturday arvo though, and he beat me in the first race on Saturday.

I'm just trying to come to terms with the difference in power delivery, and hitting the braking marker at turn 1 at 274kph. It's another dimension completely. I did however get the fastest lap for the weekend between us of 1:44.02. Rob's best was 1:44.2, so that's nice. My PB at the island by quite a bit. The bike is of course capable of so much more. I'm just not sure that I am.
Awesome, good to hear. That 1000R of Rob's must be running well if he can slipstream past you on that monster, maybe you need that ECU after all .

FWIW, I was told by one of the old MV race teams that they put new plates in before every race day, not in my budget I think.

One of the WSBK guys told me that goes out on the warm-up lap just dragging the clutch to warm it up, and that helped for me, he was down here and watched me botch a start from pole position, cracked my visor on the top joke, I think you can see it on one of my video's.

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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-19-2013, 11:41 PM Thread Starter
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I really need a 41 or 42 tooth rear sprocket. I reckon that would make a big difference coming out of the slow turns (Honda, MG), and also out of turn 12.

Rob's bike is very good. He's got a full race exhaust system on it too, whereas I've got the standard street pipes and mufflers. Probably evens them out a bit, paticularly when I have the 1000 ECU as well.

That, and he comprehensively out rode me all weekend, but I won't mention that.

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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-20-2013, 05:36 PM
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Race Report?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donsy View Post
as you know the STM has a completely different operating method to the original clutch.
not when accelerating.....it does use a diaphragm spring instead of coils though

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donsy View Post

FWIW, I was told by one of the old MV race teams that they put new plates in before every race day, not in my budget I think.

obviously a team with more money than mechanical ability

One of the WSBK guys told me that goes out on the warm-up lap just dragging the clutch to warm it up.....


i all my years of racing that is probably the silliest thing i have ever heard
run that past Kenny Roberts, Knobby Clark, Kel Carruthers, Stuart Toomey.....or Arturo Magni

there is a Forum Member that is making 200+ RWHP from 9,300rpm up on a TURBO 910R, peaking at 221HP

and HE isn't having clutch problems.....he has a STOCK 910R clutch with stiffer springs, thats it! stiffer springs and stock discs and plates

yes, he set me a set

according to my turbo sources, wet clutches are good until ~250HP

then you need to go to one of these;
http://www.mpsracing.com/images/prod...C/lockup01.jpg

yes, good for 600-700HP 'Busas


as for how to launch.....

look for a video of the SBK Race Daytona '79.....
and #88 Roberto Pietri's ~150 meter hole shot into the 1st turn from the 3rd row

he was Venezuela's MX Champion.....you think that had anything to do with it??????

i checked with a few people before posting this
like Junior.....his 225HP Gixxer 4x4 is going 5.60/130+ in the 1/8mile NA, NO ELECTRONICS, NO SQUEEZE.....no wheelie bar, street tires, no electronic controls

yes, thats on a throttle and a clutch lever

yes, I called Barnett......nothing available for MVs

and Bob, the turbo, squeeze, FI and electronics maniac from hell at RBRacing

and the Forum member with the 221 RWHP 910R to confirm everything.....oh, i have his dyno charts, i just wanted to double check with him

so he's got ~50 HP on you and there's no problem.......try looking around

i left a message for the only person that drag races big bore MVs......haven't heard back yet

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