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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-20-2016, 08:47 PM Thread Starter
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Handling Question

Hi, Folks

I am a former professional MTB racer (XC/Downhill) and Motocross guy who is having a hell of a time getting my head around proper bike handling for track purposes.

Typically I just toss my bicycle into a corner and if it starts to drift pedal hard with weight fore/aft/vertical horizontal as necessary to avoid crashing. I use body weight to initiate a turn and proceed to throw the bike (not my body) towards the ground, compressing the front-end, before unweighting to upright in transition to the next turn.

Think the biggest difference is that I am always maintaining a vertical axis intersecting my bicycle and body's center of mass regardless of the lean -- barring bermed corners.

Seems like people at the track are tossing body and dragging bike into corners. I've tried this on my MTB and super slow handling; tried it on my Brutale and it is scary as shit.

Odd that I have no problem pedaling downhill on a MTB at 50+mph but feel the world is coming to an end taking a corner at speed "properly" on my MV.

Any conversion tips are appreciated.

Truly,
Chris
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-20-2016, 09:20 PM
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You need to get some road riding instruction books, like the "Twist of the Wrist" series, road bike riding has got very little in common with MTB riding.
https://www.amazon.com/Twist-Wrist-M.../dp/0965045013
https://www.amazon.com/Lee-Parks/e/B...ne_cont_book_1

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-28-2016, 11:15 AM
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I love MTB riding though I'm nowhere near pro level. Riding a motorcycle is completely different. It is possible to ride a motorbike by keeping your body upright and pushing the bike down underneath you but only within limits. I ride the MTB like that but the relative weights of the rider and bike along with the fact the motorbikes lean much further mean that the best way the ride a motorcycle is by using your body weight to unbalance the bike so that it wants to turn. For road riding it's not necessary to go full moto gp. You could start by making sure your elbows are good and bent so that your upper body weight is low on the bike and your arms and shoulders aren't stiff. Then move your head in the direction you want to turn. That should help then once it feels comfortable you can move more of your body weight.
Course there's a lot more to it than that but it might help.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-28-2016, 11:34 AM
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^^^...starting with the initiation of the turn by countersteering....

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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-28-2016, 12:53 PM
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You'd be well served by doing the following:

Purchase a new set of tyres and seek advice on correct tyre pressures for track use from the manufacturer.
Get your Brutale suspension and geometry professionally set up for your weight.

Go out and have fun.

This is essentially Donsy's advice but he's thinking about a DIY approach.
I think, given the nature and wording of your question, you'll benefit from a pro doing this work for you. You'll save massive amounts of time.
By all means do the reasearch yourself but understand that there are preload / compression / rebound settings on a correctly sprung Brutale that are everything from sublime to rediculous.
A pro will certainly get you in the ball park of the sweet spot.

It ain't what you ride, it's the way you ride it.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
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I got the book and have been studying. Makes sense. I make my living as a professional bike fitter so I get the importance of setup. Actually using the road racing techniques for fatbike racing in snow and so far amazing results. Can't throw the FB into turns like a MTB. Thanks for the help guys.
CB
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 11:24 PM
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No worries mate.

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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by steelmill View Post
I got the book and have been studying. Makes sense. I make my living as a professional bike fitter so I get the importance of setup. Actually using the road racing techniques for fatbike racing in snow and so far amazing results. Can't throw the FB into turns like a MTB. Thanks for the help guys.
CB
A brutale is generally considered to be a quick steering bike compared to most. You can get away with murder on a decent modern mtb but for motorbikes a slightly more considered approach will make you faster and safer. Something it took me a long time to figure (started riding in the late 80's) is that trying to melt onto the bike and apply cornering and braking forces smoothly will allow you to feel what's going on much better. It's like slowing your brain down will speed your bike up. I'm sure you know stuff like that from mtb racing.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 09:35 PM
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steelmill, this is not advice, just my experience, IMHO, go with other's suggestion and purchase learning books, do a course etc..

I also ride MTB recreationally, I find the biggest difference is, it's all legs on the MTB, whilst on a Brutale, it's mostly core and inside leg grabbing the tank like riding a horse (everything else relaxed, especially arms and wrists), I came from an R6, years ago, and only returned to riding (a Brutale) recently, and I find body position when cornering is very similar to a sportbike, bum cheek off to the side to prepare (for the corner) and get your head pointing in the direction of the apex (not straight ahead), I find if I have this, the bike feels like it naturally gets me around a corner and all I do is play with the throttle.

I don't know if pros uses front brake on a MTB when entering corners, (I don't, I slow down to the appropriate speed), but on a motorbike, I use the front brake almost until I'm ready to exit (in a gradual fashion, ie trail braking).

Who moved my cheese?

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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 04:26 AM
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S, Where are you located ??? this will help on pointing you in the right direction regards training.....................


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