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post #8211 of 8347 (permalink) Old 11-07-2019, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by fingertight View Post
In terms of percentages and actual dollars, the increase is significantly less than Obama in his first four years. Obama increased the deficit by 5.4 trillion in his first four years and 10 trillion total and that was when the debt started at 10 trillion, so literally doubled it in only 8 years. Trump, on the other hand, has a total of about 2.5 trillion and started at 20 trillion. I'm not saying it doesn't matter but the liars are figuring and make it sound like Trump is just spending us into oblivion. I read one headline that gave a figure of how much it has gone up, blaming Trump of course, and you had to get real deep into the article to find out that they were using 2015 as the baseline. Two years before Trump so basically adding two years of deficits before he was even elected. The republican deficit hawks are still out there, they're just not in control of congress. That would be the democrats so, by all means, make that strawman argument that Trump is increasing the deficit. And the really funny thing, if not sad, is the democrats running for president are talking about spending levels we have never seen in this country. Literally doubling the amount of money the government
spends today.
Bush junior left your country in a bloody mess, involved your country in wars that stemmed from lies. Obama had to pull your country out of a hole, Trump has benefited from Obama's decisions, and reaped the rewards of a growing economy. His borrowing is closer to 5 Trillion, on average 1.5 Trillion
per year, at a time when the US should be paying off debt. Massive tax cuts to the very wealthy, and health cuts to the poorest in society. Trumps legacy, divide an conquer. Your wealthy's tax cuts mirror your growing debt. But keep fooling yourself, your living in a fools paradise. 11,000 scientists around the world have joined in their findings that the world is in dire trouble due to humans effects on the climate. 11,000 scientists, yet your dip shit for a leader still denies humans involvement in climate change, his words, rake the forest floors around California. Man the guy is an ostrich.

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post #8212 of 8347 (permalink) Old 11-07-2019, 02:04 PM
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Never heard of a Fire Ecosystem there, Dave? Would you allow years of forrest debris to pollute your yard and back it up to your doorstep? Would the fire marshall let you?

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post #8213 of 8347 (permalink) Old 11-07-2019, 02:15 PM
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Bush junior left your country in a bloody mess, involved your country in wars that stemmed from lies. Obama had to pull your country out of a hole, Trump has benefited from Obama's decisions, and reaped the rewards of a growing economy. His borrowing is closer to 5 Trillion, on average 1.5 Trillion
per year, at a time when the US should be paying off debt. Massive tax cuts to the very wealthy, and health cuts to the poorest in society. Trumps legacy, divide an conquer. Your wealthy's tax cuts mirror your growing debt. But keep fooling yourself, your living in a fools paradise. 11,000 scientists around the world have joined in their findings that the world is in dire trouble due to humans effects on the climate. 11,000 scientists, yet your dip shit for a leader still denies humans involvement in climate change, his words, rake the forest floors around California. Man the guy is an ostrich.
I'm sorry Dave, was there a point to your rambling? You're high if you think Trump is the one trying to divide and conquer. That is the game plan of the Democrats...always has been. BTW, the total is not 5T. That would be a fact that I understand gets in the way of a good liberal's false narrative. You don't win any argument if you can't get your facts right. You get relegated to "not worth my time" so this is all you get from me on this topic. President Barack Obamaís administration racked up nearly as much debt in eight years than in the entire 232 year history of the country before he took office. He entered with $10.6T in total debt and left with the country owing $19.9T. Thatís an average of $1.16T a year. It is now at 22T, so not that far off the real dollar pace of Obama, but significantly less in percentage change and certainly not anywhere near $5T. Trump would have to run deficits of over $2T a year just to equal Obama's numbers. To be clear, I'm not for huge deficits. My point was that those putting false figures out there, like yours, are just outright lying and, if you don't put it into perspective with the baseline, the numbers mean nothing and are only there to fool the ignorant. He's right, in an odd way, about raking the forest floors. The reason the fires are getting worse and worse each year is the build up of forest debris that used to be burned off naturally with the annual fires. An oversimplified solution but it's spot on and has been reported and confirmed by the forest service for a few decades. Opps, sorry, more facts. Love you though Dave. Don't ever change.
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post #8214 of 8347 (permalink) Old 11-07-2019, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveNZ View Post
Bush junior left your country in a bloody mess, involved your country in wars that stemmed from lies. Obama had to pull your country out of a hole, Trump has benefited from Obama's decisions, and reaped the rewards of a growing economy. His borrowing is closer to 5 Trillion, on average 1.5 Trillion
per year, at a time when the US should be paying off debt. Massive tax cuts to the very wealthy, and health cuts to the poorest in society. Trumps legacy, divide an conquer. Your wealthy's tax cuts mirror your growing debt. But keep fooling yourself, your living in a fools paradise. 11,000 scientists around the world have joined in their findings that the world is in dire trouble due to humans effects on the climate. 11,000 scientists, yet your dip shit for a leader still denies humans involvement in climate change, his words, rake the forest floors around California. Man the guy is an ostrich.
Coming from the guy who owns 2 houses, several cars, what 5 motorcycles, and a boat. No carbon foot print there.

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post #8215 of 8347 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 01:19 AM
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Coming from the guy who owns 2 houses, several cars, what 5 motorcycles, and a boat. No carbon foot print there.
I have land and trees and i do volunteer riparian planting on river banks and around swamps on local farms. As an estimate id say I've planted in excess of 10,000 trees. Well i see Trump has been found guilty along with his children for miss appropriating charity funds, even funds he raised for veterans he stole and spent of portraits of himself and used charity money for his election campaign. Has there ever been a President with as low a morrals as Donald Trump. Why isn't he in jail. Prostitutes while his wife gives birth, Dodges the draft, t goes on but stealing money from veterans, thats a new low for this crocked president. I see the judge ordered him to pay 2 million of his own money to charity. and his children to have charity running education. Ha Ha what a pathetic punishment for thieves on their grand scale.
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post #8216 of 8347 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 01:25 AM
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Never heard of a Fire Ecosystem there, Dave? Would you allow years of forrest debris to pollute your yard and back it up to your doorstep? Would the fire marshall let you?
Millions of acres to be racked, are you kidding. Trump is a moron if he thinks forest floors can be cleared of debris with a rake. If Trump had one iota of common sense would acknowledge the effects humans are having on the climate, and join other countries in formulating a plan. Rake the forest floor F***ks sake------------------eek snake, wheres that rake?

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post #8217 of 8347 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 08:02 AM
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Raking the forest floor, dearest Dave, does not have to be a literal term. The point of the matter is that responsible forestry is good for the forest, good for the people, and good for the animals that live in the forest.
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post #8218 of 8347 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 08:30 AM
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native..._in_ecosystems

Even the native Indians were wrong according to Dave

Prior to European colonization of the Americas, indigenous peoples used controlled burns to modify the landscape.[1] These controlled fires were part of the environmental cycles and maintenance of wildlife habitats that sustained the people's cultures and economies.[2] What was initially perceived by colonists as "untouched, pristine" wilderness in North America, was actually the cumulative result of these occasional, managed fires creating an intentional mosaic of grasslands and forests across North America, sustained and managed by the original Peoples of the landbase.[3][4][5][6][7]

Radical disruption of Indigenous burning practices occurred with European colonization and forced relocation of those who had historically maintained the landscape.[8] Some colonists understood the traditional use and potential benefits of low intensity, broadcast burns ("Indian-type" fires), while others feared and suppressed them.[8] In the 1880s, impacts of colonization had devastated indigenous populations, and fire exclusion became more widespread; by the early 20th century fire suppression had become official U.S. federal policy.[9] Understanding pre-colonization land management, and the traditional knowledge held by the Indigenous peoples who practiced it, provides an important basis for current re-engagement with the landscape and is critical to correctly interpreting the ecological basis for vegetation distribution


Dave if you plant another 100 trees you can justify expanding out more of your carbon foot print.

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post #8219 of 8347 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 12:45 PM
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Native or Indigenous burning was probably carried hundreds of years ago, and in different areas, the land and forests have changed since then, so much more dryer, more human dwellings built amongst the forests, and the trees them selves can be different, forestry blocks etc. Theres are fires burning out of control in India due to human burn off, and as i write there are many out of control fires in Australia, chocking Sydney's air. Maori did a burn off centuries ago to chase out the last of the Moa from the high country, 100s of thousands of acres of native bush went up in smoke, the Moa were driven to a sand spit where they were wiped out and now extinct, not all native burning turns out well. May be Trump should get out and rake those millions of acres of forest....Oh no of course those pesky bone spurs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by R1andrew View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native..._in_ecosystems

Even the native Indians were wrong according to Dave

Prior to European colonization of the Americas, indigenous peoples used controlled burns to modify the landscape.[1] These controlled fires were part of the environmental cycles and maintenance of wildlife habitats that sustained the people's cultures and economies.[2] What was initially perceived by colonists as "untouched, pristine" wilderness in North America, was actually the cumulative result of these occasional, managed fires creating an intentional mosaic of grasslands and forests across North America, sustained and managed by the original Peoples of the landbase.[3][4][5][6][7]

Radical disruption of Indigenous burning practices occurred with European colonization and forced relocation of those who had historically maintained the landscape.[8] Some colonists understood the traditional use and potential benefits of low intensity, broadcast burns ("Indian-type" fires), while others feared and suppressed them.[8] In the 1880s, impacts of colonization had devastated indigenous populations, and fire exclusion became more widespread; by the early 20th century fire suppression had become official U.S. federal policy.[9] Understanding pre-colonization land management, and the traditional knowledge held by the Indigenous peoples who practiced it, provides an important basis for current re-engagement with the landscape and is critical to correctly interpreting the ecological basis for vegetation distribution


Dave if you plant another 100 trees you can justify expanding out more of your carbon foot print.
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post #8220 of 8347 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 05:53 PM
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Coming from the guy who owns 2 houses, several cars, what 5 motorcycles, and a boat. No carbon foot print there.
Only drive/ride any one vehicle at a time. No v8 gas guzzling trucks, Hyundai=780 kms per 45 litres of diesel, Toyota van 650kms on 55 litres of diesel, boat is a 4 stroke with lean burn, 6-8 litres per running hour. Motorbikes-well got to have some vice, but all maintained and reasonably economical. Over 300 trees on my property, some very large, an acre of lawns. oh and soon to have sola hot water, I've just fitted a 25,000 litre water tank plus a few smaller ones, so my carbon footprint is low.
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