UK leaving the EU? - Page 36 - MVAgusta.net
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post #351 of 477 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 09:58 AM
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I'm saying the referendum result became legally binding when Parliament voted to enact article 50. Both main parties agreed to carry out the result of the referendum, clearly because that was the basis on which the once in a lifetime vote was framed when they thought it would be a vote for remain. I'm not saying the referendum itself was legally binding, though all the spouting that it was only advisory came about later anyway.

Clearly everyone is entrenched in their positions now, if you are confident of your stats, a General Election should be a no brainer. How can you stand by any politicians who are actively denying democracy and the continual offers to 'put it back to the people'!!!
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post #352 of 477 (permalink) Old 10-02-2019, 12:48 AM
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I agree! Put it back to the people. A general election AND a referendum on the best leave deal they have been able to negotiate.

Ian
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post #353 of 477 (permalink) Old 10-02-2019, 09:16 AM
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I agree! Put it back to the people. A general election AND a referendum on the best leave deal they have been able to negotiate.

Ian
Ex-Brit
That is the hilarious cognitive dissonance. "Its the will of the people, but definitely DONT put it to another vote now that people know what Brexit actually means. The only will of the people that matters is the one in the past when we were lying to them about how much money we were giving to the EU or about rules about pillows and/or protest votes when people thought it couldn't ever win."
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post #354 of 477 (permalink) Old 10-02-2019, 10:43 AM
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DONT put it to another vote now that people know what Brexit actually means. "
The hilarious cognitive dissonance is that the remain led chants for a new referendum, all suggest Remain or May's deal. Every leaver know's that May's deal is a BRINO. If they were to offer, Remain or No deal it would be a far more representative referendum. But that is not even being suggested. So it's all one way. Also, it's a complete re run of what went before; leave or remain.

There was only ever one question, never a mention of deals which has been twisted by remain sides, and we all know what Brexit potentially meant, but democracy is clearly a greater draw for leavers than a few short term bumps in the economy. To suggest that we all know what brexit now means, there are equally as many people now who have read the Lisbon treaty and more up to speed on what remaining will mean for the future of the uk, an insignificant vote in a large collection of countries with which we have far less in common than they have with eachother, ruled by undirectly elected politicians who are not accountable to nor unelectable by the people, who will soon have their own 'peacekeeping force' and army, what could possibly go wrong?
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post #355 of 477 (permalink) Old 10-05-2019, 06:43 PM
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Having just spent a week in my home country I’m deeply saddened by the division and confusion, the lack of trust of the government, either side, and the complete lack of understanding of the consequences of Brexit.

Happy I don’t live there any more, but very sad for the country.

Ian
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post #356 of 477 (permalink) Old 10-05-2019, 07:12 PM
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That is the hilarious cognitive dissonance. "Its the will of the people, but definitely DONT put it to another vote now that people know what Brexit actually means. The only will of the people that matters is the one in the past when we were lying to them about how much money we were giving to the EU or about rules about pillows and/or protest votes when people thought it couldn't ever win."
I think I was saying to put it to new vote now the the facts of the ‘leave’ deal are understood rather than the blatant lies that were spread before the first vote. Give the best information of the consequences of both the ‘remain’ and ‘leave’ and have a straight vote. If that’s possible.

Ian
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post #357 of 477 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 06:05 AM
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The problem there Ian is that there are still no FACTS.

No one truly knows what Brexit will entail risks or opportunities. The risks 'known now' are very much the same as has been outlined all along. There are many ways to mitigate against them, the UK has many tools open to it and there are also many opportunities to counter those.

Remain also has many unknowns, not least all the changes that will be coming into force when the articles from the Lisbon treaty kick in as well as all the further integration that will follow and of which the EU has been very clear about. So there are risks there also.

I agree, the division in the country is horrible, we're limping along completely divided. The decision was made but parliament will not deliver it. An election is required to fix this. A new referendum will just be a re-run and makes a mockery of the once in a lifetime vote as it was framed. Whatever an election result, and whichever way it goes, the country will at least have to reunite as it won't be straddling the fence as it has been. We need to fall on either side before we can get up again and move on imho. Of course we could end up with a hung government or a corbyn government, in which case, the misery will continue for much longer yet!

I put it down to the fact the people were never consulted on EU membership. Maastricht and Lisbon, most EU countries held referendums on this, we never really had our say and this has been our first opportunity.

Most of the vocal ex politicians against Brexit, were instrumental in getting us into the EU in the first place so of course are very vocal and defensive of it. They also should have had the decency to consult the people on such a big decision. EU membership was fine pre Maastricht, just a trading block, it's the political integration, supremacy and ceding of all significant sovereignty that is a large issue and a Brussels that is now it's own political entity engorging itself off member states and pooling and having supremacy of the powers of member states. I'm genuinely surprised that there are so many that have no problem with this. Our votes will count for nothing with the reshaping of the EU laid down in the Lisbon treaty. Democracy as we have always known it will cease to be.

When people talk about the perils of Brexit, I worry about the perils of remaining instead. I guess it's a case of where each side perceives the greater risk to lie.
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post #358 of 477 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 09:12 AM
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There has been a vote and while I regret that the majority has elected as it did, it needs to be respected.

The EU does no longer have a mandate to review or take influence on decisions of the UK in regards to political or economical sense, because the leave is decided. There are 23 days left to sign the negotiated deal or leave without deal which will neither be the end of the world, neither for UK nor for the EU. It will likely create initial turbulences for both parties, but then it can be finally proven if there will really be 350 million pounds per week available that will not have to go to the EU, if the UK can sign better individual trade treaties with other countries or if London will be an even more important financial centre in the the world.

The likes of Mr Johnson, Mr Rees Mogg and Mr Farage should be given the chance to deliver what they promised. If they succeed, then this is good for both parties, the UK will enjoy its prosperity, and the EU can finally deal with its other challenges.

If there will be a second vote, postponement or anything, it will always be regarded as an act of disrespecting the people's vote. And this will then feed the ever popular story of the EU having taken away
sovereignty and prosperity from the UK. If a country is not entirely convinced that the EU membership is offering benefit, then it should be granted to get out without any hurdles and try its luck.
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post #359 of 477 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 10:26 AM
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I am not equipped with the knowledge of many contributors to this subject. Sure, I voted in the Referendum more than 3 years ago (June 2016).

My feelings, perhaps like many, is just get it over and done with. Given the history of this, I wonder if there will be a further hiccup that forces abandonment of the 30th October exit?
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post #360 of 477 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 11:42 AM
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I am not equipped with the knowledge of many contributors to this subject. Sure, I voted in the Referendum more than 3 years ago (June 2016).

My feelings, perhaps like many, is just get it over and done with. Given the history of this, I wonder if there will be a further hiccup that forces abandonment of the 30th October exit?

I also voted in 2016 (Leave) and I was also a 30 year long SNP voter, I can no longer vote or support the SNP after their actions and their wishes to ignore the result, same as Labour, Lib Dems & Greens

The result of the referendum was to leave, and leave we must do as the whole of the UK voted and the outcome was to leave.
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