GPONE states Zarco is to ride the Honda RCV213V at Philip island . Cal Crutchlow actually went to Zarco to warn him the RCV213V was a lousey handling bike. That fact is so well known I think it was to offer Zarco tips on riding the bike. GPONE speculated that Honda is looking at Zarco as Marquez team mate in 2020. This makes sense as Honda is looking for a fast but conventional rider to develop a bike around.
For the young race enthusiast. At one time not too long ago if a factory team had 2 riders with styles that where totally opposite of one another no one blinked an eye, they just developed 2 different bikes. Personally I cannot see why the cost of developing 2 bikes vs 1 bike is said to be so high I believe its just a case of less funds available and in Hondas case money going into F1
Does anyone know the weight of Brad Binder? That kid has been riding the wheels off the KTM Moto2 bike this year . He is sliding the front end almost to the apex. Looking forward to seeing him next year on the KTM RC16. BUT no one can defy physics and I am hoping Binder just looks bigger than he actually is like Jack Miller.
FYI .. Was shocked to read KTM sold 216,000 units this year . To put in perspective Ducati sold 53,000 units this year (up from last year which was ?? 43,000 units)
I would definitely buy a RC16 Superbike as long as the price was reasonable. 28k-30k range
GPone also stated Maverick Vinales is in advanced talks with Ducati (what ever that's supposed to mean lol) Unfortunatly signing Vinales is like changing out one DOVI for another Dovi. Marquez can still ride a 1/2 a second a lap faster than Vinales on the same bike. Yes that is speculation but I don't think I am too far off.
BTW if anyone hears about the 2020 Aprilia MotoGP bike please post info. Who Knows? maybe Aprilia Subcontracted one of the F1 engineering firms and they figured out the Carbon fiber chassis puzzle....and designed a new 90 degree v4. Aprilia made a great WSBK but are a bit behind in MotoGP lol
GPONE states Zarco is to ride the Honda RCV213V at Philip island . Cal Crutchlow actually went to Zarco to warn him the RCV213V was a lousey handling bike. That fact is so well known I think it was to offer Zarco tips on riding the bike. GPONE speculated that Honda is looking at Zarco as Marquez team mate in 2020. This makes sense as Honda is looking for a fast but conventional rider to develop a bike around.
For the young race enthusiast. At one time not too long ago if a factory team had 2 riders with styles that where totally opposite of one another no one blinked an eye, they just developed 2 different bikes. Personally I cannot see why the cost of developing 2 bikes vs 1 bike is said to be so high I believe its just a case of less funds available and in Hondas case money going into F1
If that is what Roehr is referring to he is being alittle loose with the poetic license. I would suggest if Cal said that in Roehrs terms Cal would be looking for another job quick smart. It is normal for established riders to provide commentary on how a bike rides. The problem with the Honda is it was developed to suit one rider.
Was MV AGUSTA bought by ZONGSHEN or one of its many subsideries ? ZONGSHEN is the largest motorcycle manufacturer in the world. ZONGSHEN claims to sell 1 MILLION units a year. ZONGSHEN could walk into one of the UK engineering firms, write a check and say.. build me a MotoGP bike...I will pick it up in January.
@Roehr@120sc: I have no info on MV having been or about to be bought by Zongshen. It would be unlikely as Mr Sardarov has just pumped some additional cash into the company and thereby factually pushed out Castiglioni.
In terms of the new Aprilia GP bike. I read in an interview with Massimo Rivola, their CEO of the racing department, that he said that the bike will keep its V4 design, but that the bike will not be an evolution, but a complete new design. He did however not specify if the they keep the narrow layout of the cylinder bank angle or if they also go for a wider layout such as Ducati. I think Aprilia suffers more than it should. They have the skills to build good race bikes. That does not go away with one person (Gigi dall'Igna), but Aprilia Management has taken so many weird decisions that this project just has been doomed to be unsuccessful. When they went MotoGP, they still half-heartly pursued WSBK. And when they entered, they did it via entering into the Gresini team instead of going full-factory. And then of course the money. Either you take it serious and spend the cash needed or you leave it. Very strange. But this year one could see a little trend into the right direction.
If Vinales thinks he will be better off with Ducati... I am not sure. The Yamaha is a good bike that had some consistency issues with its performance, but when it was good, it was really good. Even though I have always been a Rossi fan, I think it is time to really come up with a plan on who to get into the factory team, once his contract expires. If he wants to go on, fine, but maybe better in the Petronas team and get Fabio Q on the second factory bike.
I would be extremely surprised if out of all teams, Honda would be willing to employ Zarco for a longer term, unless he will perform stellar at LCR. Honda does not like to be embarrassed by a rider. So even if you think the bike was not perfect, you are to keep your mouth shut and talk with your engineers and not with the press. Maybe Zarco has now learned that...
Now that Nakagami has been confirmed for 2020, all bikes are contractually occupied. So Zarco's three races will be no more than a tryout.
Regarding the initial comment about costs, I think developping two bikes is not so much a question of available money for Honda. The F1 project for sure does not soak up money from MotoGP, it is just a question of whether HRC get a plausible feedback that provides a reason for a second bike. It is bad luck that Lorenzo is not fit at the moment. To translate his feedback into deriving a separate setup or even chassis, he would need to be at his usual performance level.
At the moment Marquez is the only relevant input HRC has. Crutchlow either crashes the bike or claims that he was fast despite the unbelievable difficult circumstances. Then there is Nakagami on the old machine and Bradl as test rider whose task is to test parts designed to make the factory riders fast. So what should Honda do at the moment but developping the bike in the direction that their nr 1 rider benefits from.
Honda's challenge is not with the bike, but with having a backup rider in case Marquez needs to pause.
Correct, Flexy. But despite Lorenzo's purported 'commitment' to Honda for 2020, I would still hang a giant question mark over him. Zarco might not be an option, but he sure would get Honda heads spinning if he over performed in the final three races.
Flexy don't get internet muscles That's for guys that cant beat there way out of a wet paper bag in real life . Glenno and I debate issues but we never get ignorant. Even if we do not agree I respect Glennos and Nigels opinion as they are knowledgable they just are biased towards honda and it clouds there judgement at times . Flexy FYI just because Honda is a very large corporation doesn't mean they do not have budget guide lines . I am not an F1 enthusiast but have read many times that the average yearly budget for a top F1 team is roughly a staggering 400,000000.00 Million dollars and Honda is just starting in developing engines/drive train for F1 teams to buy. This is a ungodly expensive endeavor. With costs this high even Repsol Honda has to tighten its belt after paying F1 expences.
ALSO... Flexy , I never said MV was bought buy ZONGCHEN I ASKED if MV had been bought buy ZONGCHEN. I cannot recall who wrote article as I received info in email sent to me (motor sport news?) Zongchen is the biggest motorcycle company in the world but being they make garbage Chinese scooters it didn't make sense Zongchen would buy an exotic top tier motorcycle brand . Then again Harley Davidson buying an exotic top tier motorcycle brand didn't make sense either LOLLastly I said Crutchlow most likely DID NOT...warn Zarco about the ill handling Honda RCV213v . I said Crutchlow Most likely just gave Zarco advice on how to ride the bike and pointed out weaknesses and strenths of the bike. Flexy if you want to debate an issue fine just do not get ignorant or misquote me .
Dear Roehr@1250sc, your comment honestly took me by surprise. If I had stepped on your toes and you would have reacted in comprehensible way, I would have been very much interested in getting this sorted and in trying to apologize for any offense you took. Considering the tone of your statements, I will for the record leave it just to some correcting remarks:
You wanted to know if anyone heard anything about the new RS-GP from Aprilia, and I posted the little I had read from their new Racing CEO in the intend to provide useful information.
You asked a question about MV being bought by ZONGCHEN (without any reference that you got that from some info email), and I replied in the intend to provide useful information why this seems unlikely in the current stage. I do not understand why you perceived that as an offense.
Regarding the Crutchlow statement, I said that he crashes the bike constantly, so his input to the factory team is in my view questionable. So where exactly did I even mention anything that you did or did not say about Crutchlow? Nowhere.
Last, but not least: You come up with "believing" that Honda is investing money rather in F1 than in a second bike in MotoGP. If that thought is challenged, then you perceive that as being ignorant. If Honda had to cut short because of budget constraints, my simple thought would be that they would not let their top two drawing motorsports undertakings canibalize each other, but rather slim down on the more basic stuff, like Touring Cars, WSBK, Dakar, etc. Especially as we know that they even boost their investment in WSBK.
You should maybe consider reading others and your own posts in a more diligent manner, before going wild...
I too, was taken by surprise, and express concern that my judgement is seen as 'clouded'. I make no secret of my passion for the Honda brand, but not to the exclusion of others. I have made my point on here that Honda is not in the same league as MV Agusta. I have also recently owned an Aprilia RSV1000R Factory and presently have a confirmed order of the soon to be released Triumph Daytona Moto 2 replica. Further, I am very close to defecting from the Honda Fireblade in favour of the 2020 Yamaha R1M.
On the racing front though, I have clearly made points about my belief of Honda's RC213V not being the bad handler many commentators and others complain of. In fact, I offered a lengthy post of comparisons between the Doohan and Gardner bikes also said to be 'unrideable' yet they were championship winning machines.
Further, I have said that Zarco might find the Honda an easy ride because of his familiarity with KTM's V4 delivery. That is not a 'clouded' judgement but an opinion based on practice, qualifying and raceday viewing.
I am one who strives to present concise posts - whether it be about Honda, MV or other brand. The level of research I go to to present a coherent and factual precis was born out to defend a recent claim by a member that Honda became an Auto Manufacturer after Mr Honda died. This page refers: https://www.mvagusta.net/forum/28-racing/244553-thailand-gp-***spoiler-alert***-2.html
I have the greatest respect for all forum members and their points of view, but I find it libellous to be labelled as one of 'clouded judgement' purely on an interchange of mutually enjoyable intercourse.
Interesting situation. Zarco by deciding to run for LCR for the last 3 races of the season, just got the door closed at Yamaha as tester pilot for 2020. Further, it seems that all the key seats are locked for 2020.
Zarco was fast on the Yamaha M1, which is said to be an easy one… And he did not had good results on the KTM. Many question will see answers in the next three races… If Zarco succeed to be fast on the Honda, it may look quite bad for KTM, and as well for Lorenzo. In any case, this would allow to give some inputs regarding KTM versus Honda... If he doesn't succeed, he would just have killed his career. If he succeed, things may be interesting as well...
Basically, he made himself a nice challenge. Response in the next weeks. Prepare the popcorns, it will be interesting to watch...
Nigel and Glenno are knowledgable race fans but when it comes to admitting the Honda RCV213V is a poor handling MotoGP bike you cannot admit it because your such a Honda enthusiast . The riders ,announcers ,moto press, even Hondas own crew chief say the honda has handling problems but you guys blame the riders . Its not a situation where the bike was developed for one rider , its a situation where one rider (Marquez ) is so exceptionally talented that he can win even though the bike is a poor handling MotoGP bike. When say this I do not mean its a poor handling flexy flyer like a 1969 Kawasaki H2 500. All the manufactures are having handling problems due to record Horsepower levels except the Suzuki GSXRR(which has the least HP), the Honda RCV213V is just the most problems. Name me anouther time/season where you had one rider winning and the rest of the same manufacturers bike finishing 11th to 15th? Honda said its number 1 goal next year is to develop the RCV213V for the main stream type racer(motomatters.com,GPone ECT) (other riders styles not like Marquez) The Honda RCV213V did seem to improve at Motegi as I didn't see any riders having to deal with head shake and Crutchlow finished 6th or 7th?. I have no Bias for or against any brand and I am looking forward to seeing the new Honda CBR1000RR in WSBK and HOPE DORNA doesn't penalize Honda if the bike comes out of the box as a strong contender for the title. Which I think it will be . Marquez Is a 1 in a Billion rider a true GOAT if not THE GOAT. Hopefully Honda Changes its mind and will develop a bike JUST for his style but they have said this isn't its 1st priority . I just do not want to see Marquez ending up like Schwantz , Gardner and God forbid Rainey injured and having to cut his career short or worse trying to ride around the Honda RCV213V short commings
PS... If Mr Honda was still living we would be having this conversation as he would NEVER had allowed a MotoGP bike to go on the grid with head shake ect , and he would have funded development for a marquez style bike AND funded development for a bike for the style of average racer. When he died the accountants took over.
Im pretty sure you started commenting this when Marquez went over the edge of a curb at Aragon during pratice session.
Front wheel on tarmac, rear wheel on edge of curb.
Obvious this would cause headshake when accelerating in a 'twisted' angle. Fkn sht handling bike yo. The worse!
After that Aragon headshake I havent seen it again. Not during a race that is. Qualy is a different story.
I say Nigel and Glenno, stop argueing. I did when the never ending GOAT Marquez & Quartararo win championships on a Ducati......unless proven its all speculation.
Pointless to argue with a persons personal thoughts.
5000 topics on how bad the Honda handles.
All same arguments and topics, and you guys keep grabbing the bait.
(Like I just did with the stupid headshake)
BSG your correct, at Aragon marquez just came off the curb on an angle and the the bike got out of shape. That can happen to any bike no matter how well it handles. I am talking about head shake which is when bike accelerates so hard off the corner it flexes/ twists the chassis causing the handle bars to violently go back and forth about 3-4 inches rapidly and rider has to back off throttle. The yYamaha and KTM used to do it too but hey corrected the problem . But I have been following Grand prix/MotoGP since 1977 and have never seen it before in the premier class. Then again the bikes didn't have 280hp-300HP before either.
I would think Zarco would have a better chance controlling the 2018 RCV213V because it is a better handling bike than the 2019 RCV213V because it has less hp (according to Cal Crutchlow=GPONE) AND the RCV213V is more conventional chassis/bike as a whole and closer to the Yamaha M1 that he formerly rode and did well on
Zarco is going to ace it and take Lorenzo's seat in 2020, Lorenzo will be kept on as development rider to fulfil contract duration. You heard it here first
I am a Rossi fan, but this evaluation after the first three races will have to be not only about the bike, but on his performance as well. The last years he was the Nr 1 guy at Yamaha, even then not solely because of his speed, but because of consistency. This year both MV and FQ perform better.
So in a hypothetical scenario in which the Yamaha would be the absolute best bike equally suiting MV, FQ and VR, so that they all could outperform the combination Marquez/Honda, then it is likely he will be beaten by his fellow M1 riders. Which is not a shame, considering their talent.
But as I said, totally hypothetical. I do not really see that either Márquez is loosing appetite, nor Honda building a substantially inferior bike.
Nito the way Lorenzo has be cruising at 3 seconds off pace Honda should take away his RCV213V and give him a Goldwing to ride lol. I have a feeling Lorenzos manager told him to show up , ride in every practice , qualification and race. This way he doesn't breach contract and honda will have to pay Lorenzo for the entire 2020 season. If not Lorenzo rides around in last place in 2020 and hinders Hondas main goal of developing the RCV213V for the average/normal style racer. (motomatters.com/GPone ect ect) if this is the case from now on you can bet the factories will have performance clauses in there contracts. Wouldn't blame them.
. . . I have a feeling Lorenzos manager told him to show up , ride in every practice , qualification and race. This way he doesn't breach contract and honda will have to pay Lorenzo for the entire 2020 season. . .
Nigel Sports contracts, funding and Budgets are wild and wooley. Especially Motorsports. I actually just report what I read. Example: read Zongshen bought MV. Made no sense. Ended up being Loncin building 4 models for MV with a Russian (who has had dealings with MV before) New Ceo and funding expansion. BTW, China GREAT idea. Most expanding market for high end exotic cars in the world. Cant build Aston Martin dealerships fast enough. MV Agusta is the lamborghinni of Motorcycles the Chinese will LOVE them .
FYI Just read a good article at http://www.motomatters.com By Dave Emmitt a MotoGP insider .. Marquez increasing salary a good problem it has.. In a nutshell it says marquez salary has gotten so high that it has taken money away from the RCV213V development budget and this is why Honda has done so little with the bike. ( this is HRC statement apparently) I am aging myself but I thought riders salary still came from Honda HQ. ( it was news that MR HONDA would hand Freddie Spencer his check personally)
Article said HRC budget 75M per year total but no break down of expenditures.Article was printed 9/26?
I think Zarco did quite well for his first time out in sketchy conditions. It looks like he was fast given how little time he had on the bike, he was probably a little rusty too. Still he had no issues with Lorenzo. Zarco had a great fight with the first KTM, something he did not do when riding on the KTM. Pol usually smoked him. If he improves his pace & feel a little next race he could be in the top 10.
If he does improve at Sepang and then does a bit better in Valencia Zarco might be a very strong choice for Honda should Lorenzo continue to self destruct. BUT if I managed Honda Racing - my thoughts only - Nakagami would get Lorenzo's seat and Zarco would go to LCR. Factory Honda is the right place for the only Japanese MotoGP rider in the field.
I like Honda's too, but I have MV, Ducati, Aprilia and Yamaha in the garage does that make me unreasonably biased toward Honda. Really like my '16 R1 it is so much fun to ride but isn't as fast on paper as the Kawasaki, BMW, Duc V4, Suzuki GSXR-R and some others but it has proven fast enough on track. Must be my Vinales helmet that makes it so fast, the K-tech gas forks, or stickers yeah could be the stickers...
I was surprised at how he went, considering all the talk about the narrow design focus of the Honda.
From what was reported he chose 3 races this year over being a full time test rider for 2020, I.e. he wanted the race time on the track. The fire still burns.
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