New WSBK Rules blatantly Anti European anti Ducati - MVAgusta.net
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-14-2017, 05:01 AM Thread Starter
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New WSBK Rules blatantly Anti European anti Ducati

A few years back in the Aprilia Era, WSBK was faster closer and much ore exciting. Kawasaki ,Honda Suzuki Yamaha could afford to buy up the Fastest riders . Aprilia,BMW had the best handling fastest, most durable bikes. This evened up the field. I have read countless times over the last 40 years that when you have few rules engineering finds its own level and the grid evens itself out. Other than handicapping rule so a manufacturer can compete at all is all that is needed .Example of this is Ducati using a twin against inline and v-4s then the FIM must allow handicap because twins are so much harder to get horsepower from . 4 cylinder has many inherent advantages over a twin . 1000cc vs 1200cc only Ducati has been able to make a competitive WSBK and at great engineering cost. FYI Ducatis never had superior Horsepower, they could hook up and get better drives off corners and the 4 cylinder bikes had to not only catch but pass the v-twin Ducatis down the straits ... they looked faster but where not. Ducati saw this from the start and you shouldn't punish them for being savy/smart.
CURRENT SITUATION the 1199 Panagale didn't win out of the box in fact it was slower than its previous model 1198 and couldn't handle as well. (if ever? the new Ducati V-4 has a frame..no more Monoque chassis?) The 1199 took 3 YEARS to win a race and the 1199Panagale NEVER won a title.
YET Dorna/FIM want to add WEIGHT/restrict air ect ect to the 1199 claiming Ducati has a horsepower advantage . Why would any manufacturer want to race knowing as soon as they do well the sanctioning body will take it away ? Rae is the best rider, Kawasaki spends the ost money. The FIM should just say... Japanese are the only manufactures allowed to win titles and now they are the only manufactures able to win races? ALSO... the FIM says they may now be allowed to CHANGETHE RULES ON RACE BY RACE BASIS IF NEED ARRISES.
I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST JAPANESE .I believe in adjusting displacement for 4cyl,3 cyl, and Twins same tire brand for all then see whos company has the best engineering department.
Simple easy and CHEAPE. It has been done any before with great success .
Take a look at new wsbk rules at http://www.motomatters.com
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-14-2017, 10:10 PM Thread Starter
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In an interview with Wayne Rainey (Roadracing World) He was asked about how stringent the rules where going to be in the new MotoAmerica series . Rainey stated that he was happy to see WSBK was libera in its use of high end components ect. Because then everyone is allowed to work there Superbikes more easily attain power and good handling even in the privateer ranks AND teams from MotoAmerica could afford to enter WSBK rounds in USA.
On the cover of Roadracing world last month the heading was .... HOW ENGINEERING GETS AROUND MOTOGP REGULATIONS ???? ALL this engineering to get around rules costs $$ money slow the motorcycles and most have no real purpose?
EXAMPLE ..Fuel rationing , they are RACING MPG science and racing is like apples vs oranges It costs a TON of engineering dollars and most don't even know there are fuel rationing .
Good news on that front at least ... If I am not mistaken fuel rationing amounts hit a brick wall of sorts and the FIM actually allowed 2 more liters in fear of riders/bikes not finishing the races. (not much but its better than making them use less )
Please Dorna oosen up the rules and leave the rules ALONE.
post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-15-2017, 01:27 AM
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I dont think ducati can call foul given the history of wsb.

It's the same cycle as ever, previously for years the reverse was true, in the era of the 750 4's. Ducati had an advantage for years, so the Japs left. Now its swung the other way.

Back in the 750 and early 1000 era, very few club racers ran a duc as it could not be competitive against a Jap machine without serious cash being spent in tuning and excessive maintainace on top of the CC increase.

Good racing is good racing, I'd prefer an 8 wheeler for every win, ideally different manufacturers.

The issue for the manufactures must be cost vs return (cash and advertising). Why be in a championship which penalises your machine to help a machine that cant keep up? It can be considered false advertising.

All the layouts deliver more torque and power than can be used everywhere so the issues of the past are not as important as before.

There are benefits to same tyres and ecu's etc in terms of close racing, BSB being a different set of rules to WSB.

That said I'd prefer superbikes to stay as superbikes, we have superstock we don't need another stockish class.

Do i want every bike to have an equal cance of winning, I don't think I do. Without the natural or even the manufactured inequality where is the underdog? They are the races i recall.

I remember hoping that glen richards in bsb and frankie chili in wsb would take one last win for the 750s against the 1000 fours and 1000 twins.

Of course the conspiracy theory is that the controversy about inequalities create debate and that creates buzz etc..
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-15-2017, 12:31 PM
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Even the Panigale with it's 199cc advantage was unable to take a WSBK title. 4 cylinders and 1000cc appears to be the best thing now.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-15-2017, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swissinn View Post
Even the Panigale with it's 199cc advantage was unable to take a WSBK title. 4 cylinders and 1000cc appears to be the best thing now.
It does have 2 cylinders less. Which compensate with more CC's (didnt ducati ride with the 1299?)
Same goes for 675cc in WSS.

Kawasaki just found a "gold spot" in WSBK. Just totally dominating all other brands. Although Davis could keep up some races.
Amazing for Kawasaki, bad for the viewers. So lets just hope everything works out fine next year and have a nice top 5/10 close together fighting with each other, what we all love to see.

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-15-2017, 04:19 PM
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I have to disagree about the fuel limits, I'd like to see strict rules that force actual technical development. When was the last time we actually saw real innovation in consumer motorcycles? Addition of drive by wire and traction control electronic controls not withstanding, which is actually fairly old tech by the time we got it as consumers, I can't think of any major breakthroughs and real innovation in motorcycles in the past 15 years. There needs to be something disruptive that will cause the shakeup, and if that isn't racing I'm not sure what it will be.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-15-2017, 04:34 PM
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How about batteries, for development last 15 yrs?

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-15-2017, 04:54 PM
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If you remove Johnny Rhea from the equation, you have a Ducati Championship the last 3 years... So it is not that the bike is not competitive, it is you have a man & machine combination that is, THAT DAMN GOOD... think Marc Marquez in his 10 or was it 11 wins in a row, except you have that for 3 seasons..
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-16-2017, 10:52 PM Thread Starter
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Jd the last 2 races YAMAHA has had the top trap speeds. (I wish mags listed trap speeds every race reveals many things ) and the Ducati Panagale has never been a great handling machine . Having great drive off corners makes it look much faster.
Point is that its fine if Kawasaki wins 3 titles with Rea why is it such a crime if Rea had won on a Ducati? Why did Dorna penalize a small company like Aprilia for developing the best bike on a budget 1/2 that of Kawasaki , Honda ect . Been following racing for 40 years and it always works out that allow manufactures to work a few bikes to the max for wsbk ( meaning no Homologation rules or slight rules) working 6 bikes to the max is much cheaper than needing to build 500 homologation specials or having to re engineer those bikes every year . Go back to Aprilia era rules will also promote stock engineering progress.
post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-16-2017, 11:22 PM Thread Starter
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Fim/Dorna hope is that outside funding will increase till they can sit back and collect fees AKA NASCAR. Which isn't going to happen . The NASCAR Fan and the WSBK/MotoGP fan is apples /Oranges.

Fuel limit restriction cost is only second to electronics.
I talked to engineering dept at Penn university which was doing study on fuel millage . He stated racing isn't the way to study fuel mileage.

Electric/battery power jumped forwards in leaps and bounds then hit a wall a couple years back . You can either get power/speed or 35mph and distance . But in Both cases I have been told racing isn't the way to go for research. In reality the auto industry has been able to make a lightweight car with tube frame /fiberglass small engine that gets 70 mpg but SALES have to be there , Profits are the biggest hurdle by far.

Last edited by [email protected]; 11-16-2017 at 11:43 PM.
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