2016 Aprilia Motogp Is It Really New? - MVAgusta.net
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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-21-2016, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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2016 Aprilia Motogp Is It Really New?

Hoping some of our European members...in the know.. can answer me this ?
In 2015 Aprilias MotoGP entry was more or less a SUPER Superbike . First year out,getting the feel of the competition/series. No hiding the fact and no shame in that. But in 2015 Aprilia promised an ALL new,90 degree V-4, full flegged full prototype MotoGP Machine . Now in 2016 we see a 60/65 degree (same as stock) V-4 motorcycle that seems to be just anouther SUPER Superbike? and they are stating it is a TRUE prototype MotoGP machine. In these trying economic times , if Aprilia ran short of money,ok? these things happen and I applaud you for still trying ( the more the merrier)
But to pull the wool over everyones eyes and try to pass off a Worked WSBK is wrong.

HOPEFULLY IM WRONG AND APRILIA JUST DITCHED THE 90 DEGREE V-4 at the last minet and built a full prototype bike and Full Prototype 60 Degree V-4 Engine. Unfortunatly That seems unlikely with the inherent advantages of a 90 Degree V vs a 60 Degree V configuration .

ANYHOW>>>>> Has anyone have he inside story of whats going on at Aprilia.
(ps) Personally I feel Aprilia(and Ducati to an extent) got screwed in WSBK and I own both motocycles personally . So I have nothing against the brand . IN FACT I HAVE NO BRAND LOYALTY OF DISLOYALTY
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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-21-2016, 07:47 PM
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I don't have any inside info, just my opinion from what I hear on TV and read on various sites, I think Aprilia pulled the wool over their own eyes Paul, showing up with a bike that's 15kg overweight in MotoGP's is no way to try and get to the front.

As for Ducati, I think they've been more than helped in WSBK's from the word go mate, allowing them to run much bigger motors than what they produce for the road in a class that is supposed to be "race what you sell" orientated.
I don't say this happens or happened every year, but certainly more often than not, right down to the Japanese bikes being more restricted in WSBK Championships than what they where is some local Championships.

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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-22-2016, 09:16 AM Thread Starter
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HI Donsy ,I am a BIG beleiver of adjusting Displacement and/or even turbocharging to level the playing field so ALL manufactures can enter and be competitive in WSBK racing. Ducati or ANY V-Twin has to be allowed more displacement because of the inherent DISADVANTAGES of a twin Vs a inline and V-4. A twin has more internal mass,slower flame speed,Lower red line, less valve area ,less top end power(in same state of tune) ect ect. What the twin DOES have over a 4 cylinder is it makes more power at a Lower RPM. Ducatis always had lass Horsepower than the inline 4s in WSBK. BUT making power at much lower RPM the Ducatis had much better acceleration driving off corners and the higher horsepower inline 4s had to get to engines peak hp range, catch up AND pass the Ducati BEFORE the next corner. Take Ducatis ONE advantage away and they might as well leave the bikes on the truck lol

PS // I own a 2009 Ducati 1198 Aprilia RSV4 Kasasaki zx10,MV AGUSTA F41000R,(FAVORITE) ROEHR 1250sc (FAVORITE) BMW K1200S (HP VERSION) 225hp185lb torque Harley road glide with BEST race suspension available and 21 inch front 18 rear tires) SO as you can see I'm not biased of any brand bias
STILL building greatest Buell Firebolt ever and anuther harey Electra Glide with Briggs Stratton liquid cooled Turbocharged 1000cc 90 degree 2 valve ,pushrod V-twin (120hp 115 lbs tor ,6 speed transmission.
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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-22-2016, 12:17 PM Thread Starter
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Donsey in WSBK APRILIA where the manufacturer who got the screws.The company not big enough to afford homologation of 500 bikes and its hard to argue that Aprilia didn't have the best bike on the grid.
Look how competitive private teams are doing I WSBK . the best ...Base... for a race bike in WSBK is an Aprilia or BMW. I wonder if BMW is kicking itself for dropping official Factory BMW team. If they had stayed together and kept Davies IMHO BMW would have had a WSBK title by now . Kawasaki is winning titles by having the best riders. You don't see the dominant bike you saw with the Aprilia RSV4. The Kawasaki does everything well but not the best in any category. I'm curious how well the Ducati would be if say? Sykes was riding it ? IMHO Davies is Really riding the wheels off the Ducati.
post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-22-2016, 01:40 PM
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That's just crazy Paul, it's supposed to be World Superbikes, and very closely related to what you can buy in the shop with minimum mods. (It was a dream once)
Ducati made massive sales to people who thought they bought the most powerful SBK which won on Sunday in the 90's, where they way surprised.
Aprilia didn't pull out because of homologation shortcomings mate, where do you even get that from, maybe Bimota ?
Kawasaki winning titles by having the best riders, wth, how did JR go on the Honda again ?

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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-22-2016, 04:27 PM
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Totally agree Donsy.
Showing my age here but years ago, like 25 or so, Superbikes were much closer to road bikes.
I don't watch Superbikes because it largely fails to be representative of the respective brands.
The Ducati has been heavily favored because promoters wanted to leverage it's brand and emotional connection with the public, and not just motorcyclists. No Ducati in the field and the series is toast.
Frankly with the level of mods allowed and promoter interference in engines capacity in Superbikes, Motogp, in my opinion provides a better spectacle and at least all bikes are running the same engine capacity.

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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-23-2016, 07:23 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Guys , First off ...Superbike class as long as I have known for the past 40 years was taking a stock Sportbike then using Chrome moly Forged rods , pistons, titanium valves ect ect to make the MOST horsepower possible. Same with Susspension ......to make it as fast as Possible. Super stock and Super sport where the classes closer to what you buy off the showroom floor .
Problem is when rules change and you don't allow forged pistons, titanium valves ect in Superbike. The MASSIVELY FUNDED teams like Kawasaki and Honda BEND the rules and take the stock internal parts and spend 10 times the amount of money on special F! processes to make the weaker internals as good as the Forged internals that where just banned. Then to add insult to injury Homologation rues state you must make 500 o these super high dollar machines . ITS NOT A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD . Small Companies like Aprilia cant afford to... BEND.. the rules in this manor. This is why they got rid of Homologation last time in the late 90s/

As far as Ducati goes ... unless you allow twins to have more displacement they cannot be competitive period . Engineering 101.

there is a magazine .... Race engine technology magazine from uk Subsciption is 200$ a year but worth it . Explains every type of race engine , all inside info that you wont find in motorcycle magazines and why the latest....cost cutting rules has actually RAISED the costs in racing . (Also in MotoGP who has REALLY shot themselves in the foot .) Sorry short answers gotta go installing forged stroker crank in a 1000cc Kohler v-twin .

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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-23-2016, 09:00 PM
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Hey I enjoy this topic very much, we all have different opinions mostly because of the variation in info available to us and what the media fed us over the years.
WSBK's have not even been around for 40 years mate, I'm not sure if you're confusing American classes with WSBK ?
When did Aprilia pull out of WSBK racing because they couldn't produce the homologation numbers, please inform me if this was recent ?
Both them and BMW pulled out at the completely wrong times, Melandri at the very least could have handed them WSBK titles, also Yamaha for that matter.
Aprilia messed up thinking they could go to MotoGP with a WSBK motor half arsed effort, they're still struggling and I hope they get their MotoGP effort sorted out before turning and running from that too.

If you can't produce a bike that can compete in the current competition in its street configuration, then should the whole class be handicapped so you can not only compete, but win year after year?
It's one thing selling a 851 bike to the public, but then allowed to race a 888 etc? And people wonder why Japan had to bring those expensive limited edition bikes onto the market.

At one stage the WSBK grid had something like 14 Ducati's with a few (6?) other bikes on the grid, how can that ever amount to anything fair ? It was the Italian Ducati cup and not worth the WSBK name.

Remember when Giorgio Lavelia tried the Suzuki comeback GsxR, they had to run throttle body restrictions so the 1000 Suzuki couldn't keep up with the oversized Ducati's. When they asked for a different compound rear tyre to help with the peaky power output, the whole Ducati grid balked against it and it was dissalowed !

I remember Ducati complaining that they couldn't keep up the costs, because they had to run such a high level of tuning that each rider went through 2 motors on a weekend, the Japanese 750's lasted up to 4 race weekends on Nori Haga's R7 etc.
And if not mistaken Ducati also enjoyed a weight advantage some of the seasons ?
I'm not a massive Honda fan , but fuck me did I cheer for Colin Edwards at Kyalami wen he raced the SPR, that was a great year or two, and was terribly saddened wen Nori didn't take that title for Yamaha on the R7 due to his diet bann, damn I was so dissapointed.

It's the same in my opinion currently with MV and Ducati in WSBK, that rear suspension and tank layout on the MV has nothing to do with current production bike, not even remotely. The new exhaust system on the Ducati costs over $40k, all because they're production layout systems cooked the rear tyre, and messed up the power curve.
MV should have used that money to make sure the 675 wins a title first, but that's just my opinion. It makes no sense to throw that much money at a bike that was never going to Win a championship, where the 675 has all the potential to win if they sort them out properly.

Make no mistake, I'm no Ducati hater, they've built some beautifull bikes (not the 999 Kevin), but from the mid 80's to the mid 90's their road bikes where crap, and would never win any races on a remotely level playing field against the Japanese bikes.
I remember going on a rally in South Africa on my FZR1000EXUP (90) and a mate wanted to go with on his 851, it was about a 2400km round trip in three days, he couldn't make it without stopping for a oil and filter change. Our cruising speed would be 160-180kmh all day long. At the end of the trip the thing was pissing out oil as fast as it was using it, he swapped it for a FZ750.

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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-24-2016, 01:37 AM
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Dons I agree, the WSBK grid had a pretty nice rule back in the Days.
4 cyl. 750, 3 cyl. 875, 2 cyl. bikes 1000cc.
And it worked pretty good for while.
Honda and Muzzy's Kawasaki, the Yamaha and even a Bimota (first Year) were in the running and even to the twin Ducati's.
Then Ducati got the overhand because of smoother power band conserving the rear tire better.
The Japs lost the interest in expensiver and expensiver limited production bikes for a dyeing market.
And sadly the 750's diminished from the showrooms.
Honestly a big mistake with the Suzuki and the F4 being the last of the breed.
Today we see 800cc bikes have a revival because the 1000cc rockets are obsolete on the roads and not even that much faster on tracks.
Okay then Honda gave it a last try with beating Ducati with the same weapon.
The SP 1000 and Colin Edward delivered.
Then it got all messed up.
Everyone with 1000cc and restrictors, different weights and restricted throttle bodies.
Soon Ducati was threatening to leave if they don't get 1200cc.
And so we see Year by Year new concessions to Ducati.
Alone it seams to be that the Japanese, BMW and Aprilia understand the game now.
Even with more displacement is Ducati not running away anymore.
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-24-2016, 05:48 AM
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I have some inside view to this...

Aprilia GP this year is a new bike all around. The V angle is not 60, nor is it 90.
They are working on it, I think the bike will come better. But their riders...I don't think so.

Regarding the WSBK. Kawasaki and BMW are the most close to stock bike. OK, they are heavily modified, but Ducati is almost built from scratch apart from main frame/airbox and main casting(heads, engine block, lengthened swingarm).
Everything else is build from zero and only resembles the stock items. Exhaust,fairings, subframe,...
Exhaust doesn't cost 40k, it is lower than half of his sum.
Aprilia is still excellent bike in SBK, but it's not a factory input as it used to be, they outsourced to some team. Next year they will have more involvement in SBK. Rider is good (Savadori), so I expect better results.
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