Suspension Setting Start Point - MVAgusta.net
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-01-2006, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
 
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Suspension Setting Start Point

As with emvee, my new Brutales' settings are too hard on our bumpy rural roads so i am attempting to soften things up a little.

Maybe I'm stupid but I can't make sense of the MV manual.

Firstly, where is the starting point (or standard position) for front & rear dampening adjustment, the manual says to find it turn screw clockwise and then anticlockwise? This assumes that you come back to the point that you started at, then, according to the adjustment tables, to set for a soft ride, turn nut 12 clicks clockwise and for a firm ride 7 clicks. Surely the more clicks the harder the ride, or does increasing dampening soften the ride?

The spring preload principle makes sense to me - turn the nut clockwise to increase the preload - manual says 1 turn for soft and 3 for firm, however where is the startpoint? Do i turn the nut fully anticlockwise until it stops?

I read the Ohlins info as suggested it all makes good sense but those bloody Italians (I'm still hurting from the World Cup loss) have confused me.

Thanks
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-02-2006, 01:43 AM
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It took me a couple times reading the manual myself.

For example, to set the rebound to standard, you turn the rebound screw clockwise all the way (until it does not click anymore) and then count the number of clicks (5) anticlockwise.

Easy.
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-02-2006, 02:55 AM
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it's the same for all suspension systems really.

when you turn the adjuster (rebound/compression) clockwise, you are seating a needle valve. when it stops turning, the needle is fully against the seat and the oil bypass is blocked. that forces all the oil through the rebound/compression damper. when you turn the screw counter-clockwise, you are moving the needle away from the seat, and that allows oil to bypass the valves, which lessens the damping effect - softer damping.

so, to set the suspension for any bike, you always turn the screw until it's fully seated (all the way in), and then start counting clicks as you back it out.

the preload is a bit different. when you turn that one, you are "pre-compressing" the spring. all that does is change the ride height. you are adjusting where in the suspension travel the bike rides.

as an aside, popular misconception is that by adding preload, you make the suspension "stiffer". the spring stiffness is set by the coil thickness, winding, and spring material. no amount of preload can make a spring stiffer. the spring constant (the K term is Hooke's Law ) is determined only by the type of spring in the system.

alex
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-02-2006, 02:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byronmv
As with emvee, my new Brutales' settings are too hard on our bumpy rural roads so i am attempting to soften things up a little.

Maybe I'm stupid but I can't make sense of the MV manual.

Firstly, where is the starting point (or standard position) for front & rear dampening adjustment, the manual says to find it turn screw clockwise and then anticlockwise? This assumes that you come back to the point that you started at, then, according to the adjustment tables, to set for a soft ride, turn nut 12 clicks clockwise and for a firm ride 7 clicks. Surely the more clicks the harder the ride, or does increasing dampening soften the ride?

The spring preload principle makes sense to me - turn the nut clockwise to increase the preload - manual says 1 turn for soft and 3 for firm, however where is the startpoint? Do i turn the nut fully anticlockwise until it stops?

I read the Ohlins info as suggested it all makes good sense but those bloody Italians (I'm still hurting from the World Cup loss) have confused me.

Thanks
The fork adjusters work like a needle valve, they are a by-pass that allows the oil to "by-pass" the main shim damping, so the further you turn them out the bigger the by-pass hole will be and the softer the suspension will be, turning them all the way in untill they stop forces all the oil to go through the suspensions shim stack.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-02-2006, 03:00 AM
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^^ Simultaneous post
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-02-2006, 03:08 AM
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yeah, and like 8000 miles apart. the internet is so odd.
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-02-2006, 07:53 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Guys
I'll go and have a fiddle now you've made it clearer - thanks again.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-04-2006, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by fazer6
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WOW, thats spooky , close on word for word the same, its odd how many people think they are making the spring harder by adjusting the preload, its the same in the car world

We did have some very nice adjustable springs on the cars though, the bottom spring pan had the same helix as the spring machined into it, to adjust the spring rate you simply wound the spring into this machined ally block then locked it with an allen bolt, thus shortening and hence increasing its rate, they were four "rate" adjusatable, you also screwed the height up four turns for every one increase in rate to maintain the ride height, whether they would look out of place on a bike i'm not sure?
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-11-2006, 12:48 PM
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byron, the first place to start is with spring rates. Do this by checking "sag". Most manufacturers including Marzocchi make about four or five different springs for their forks and for good reason. Rider weight varies from 130 to 250 lbs., so one size does *not* fit all - or at least not very well. No amount of twiddling with screws will make up for the wrong springs.

As has been correctly stated, increasing preload does NOT increase the spring rates. But.... a lot of preload makes a spring FEEL stiffer for the reason that it preloads or "pre-uses" the spring. A fixed amount of force has been delivered to the spring and the spring will not react to forces below that threshhold level. This includes small bumps. More preload = less initial compliance.

This is why, when given a choice between two springs - both within the "correct" limits - many riders will choose the stiffer spring as it requires less preload and often "feels" softer due to the fact that far less of the initial compliance has been "cranked out".

I don't know what changes MV made to subsequent models, but my 750 was the worst of both worlds - waaaay too soft a spring and far too much damping. Result - no amount of preload would deliver the correct ride height; too much sag meant much of the suspension was "used up" just by sitting on the bike and little was left for riding conditions; the front end dove much too far much too fast even on the street; damping was so stiff the forks banged over every bump and rebound was so stiff it gave little feedback and only a fraction of the planted feel those forks are capable of delivering.

Bottom line, forget about the book settings. Get a hold of a tuner or take the forks apart yourself and figure out what's right for you. Good luck.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-11-2006, 04:33 PM
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Does anyone know what rider weight the MV F4 1000 is set up for as standard?
I'm 185ibs (83kg) and find that for me the bike handles pretty good on stock settings. I've really not needed to change anything yet maybe when I really start pushing it I may need to make small changes but right now I've not noticed anything that stands out at all.
My old 03 R1 was obviously soft and needed a lot of set up to get it right but this feels pretty sorted without any suspension adjustment.
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