MV F4 2013+ Eldor ECU Equipped Bikes Update - MVAgusta.net
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post #1 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 01:19 AM Thread Starter
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MV F4 2013+ Eldor ECU Equipped Bikes Update -incl Fixing the QuickShifter and Blipper

Hi,
I thought I'd update the community with what I've been doing on my F4.

I should make it clear that I do not have any relationship commercial or otherwise with any of the purveyors or manufacturers of the following products. My only interest is in products that are compatible with my MV (F4 2015), and especially with those who have helped adapt their products to work with the MV.

I am not aware of any conflict of interest with the site sponsors, none offer the same products for my generation of bike. Some may have the capability to offer a similar product, however the 2013+ Nemo ECU equipped bikes have been around long enough for those with an interest to produce products.

All of the following pertains to the 2013+ F4, F4R, F4RR using the Eldor EM2.0 Nemo ECU, I would assume that the majority also relates to the Brutale and F3. All the work has been undertaken on a 2015 F4 with ABS.

1. Eldor Nemo EM2.0 ECU Control & Adjustment
As most are aware there is very little choice for those of us with the Eldor ECU with respect to remapping of the ECU. Many of the owners of the F4 feel mislead about the functionality of the bike, does it have a blipper or not for example. A while back I purchased the flashing hardware/ software and a licence from ECU Studio for the F4.

I have been using ECU Studio for a few months now and I am now rather happy. It’s taken a while to explore the functions and convince myself I have all the tools I could possibly need and that I understand / verified their operation. Part of my mindset is that I want independence from MV especially given the fluctuating fortunes of MV.

In a nut shell ECU Studio provides the following key features
• Full fuelling Control
• Throttle Mapping
• Limiter control
• Quick shifter
• Auto Down shifter (blipper)
• Throttle calibration
• Error Clearing
• Data logging

The system is setup so that once you have the Hardware you buy a licence per bike, so I can re-program as many bikes as I like. Over the past few months I have received updates for both the program and the ECU, incorporating new software features and the latest updates and changes from MV.

For those of you with a technical disposition here is a list of tables / adjustments for the MV F4. You can see that there is a significant level of control and the difference between this product and a power commander.

• Engine Braking - gear specific, table for Normal/Rain and Sport modes
• Engine Load, Accelerator Position to Engine Load
• Engine Load, Engine Load to Throttle position
• Engine Load Intake Air Pressure to Engine Load
• Engine Load, Max Allowed Throttle vs Engine Speed

• Fuelling, Compensation Coolant Temperature
• Fuelling, Cut off
• Fuelling, Fuel base map
• Fuelling, Trim 1 Cylinder 2
• Fuelling, Trim 2 Cylinder 3
• Fuelling, Trim 3 Cylinder 4

• Ignition, Base Map
• Ignition, Compensation Coolant Temperature
• Ignition, Advance Map
• Ignition, Maximum Ignition

• Limiters RPM - Table for Normal/Rain and Sport & neutral as well

• QuickShifter, Blip down On/Off
• QuickShifter, Blip Down Max RPM - gear specific
• QuickShifter, Blip Amount RPM Limiter off - gear specific
• QuickShifter, Blip Amount RPM Limiter on - gear specific
• QuickShifter, CUT Times - gear specific by RPM
• QuickShifter, CUT times #2 - gear specific by torque demand
• QuickShifter, Min Speed for Operation
• QuickShifter, Shift Direction (Road/Race)
• QuickShifter, Shift up minimum RPM - gear specific
• QuickShifter, Shift down voltage
• QuickShifter, Shift rest voltage
• QuickShifter, Shift up voltage

• Settings, O2 sensor correction
• Settings, Target Idle vs Engine Temperature
• Settings Throttle Strategy - Standard (mapped) or direct connection
• Settings, Exhaust Valve, on /off
• Settings, Exhaust Valve Map if on

• Torque Calculation, Accelerator Scaling - Table for Normal, Rain and Sport, no need for a Quick action throttle just dial it in
• Torque Calculation, Target Torque
• Torque Calculation, Torque Limiters - Tables for Rain and Normal/Sport

As I understand it there is still more functionally to 'publish' in the ECU, for now this is enough for me. I guess that in general the amount of development is directed by interest in the product, the more interest, more features get added.

I understand the following is in development for the F4
• Pit Lane Limiter
• Launch Control
• Use of Wide band O2 sensor


Note: While the blipper should work with the standard Starlane sensor, as my sensor gave a bi-directional response, I had already abandoned the sensor in favour of the Durashift product. As you have control of the voltages there is no reason that the Starlane sensor would not work. The Starlane sensor is problematic and very noisy (electrically) see below.

The system is very different to a power commander system and is more akin to a Magneti Marelli system used in top flight racing. The following is a huge simplification, essentially the system appears to be a load based system rather than the traditional alpha-n. Given the current conditions, load, rpm, gear etc. and the riders throttle input, a requested engine load is calculated. As the ECU contains a set of characterising maps for a given load, the ECU then manages the transition of one load to another.

Having spent a while cheating and just resolving small fuelling issues, I have not yet looked for the ultimate map, it will be a large commitment in time and cash. I have spent a while with the throttle mapping and getting a 'feel' that I like. I'd say the mapping is not what my mind had predicted, but around the relatively tight nagery circuits here in the UK such as Oulton Park and Cadwell Park the throttle response and feel is so much better, to me at least.

When playing with the throttle mapping I found the Dyno useful for checking operation, but only on the track was it possible to test its real world operation. While each change of the maps ECU Studio makes you save a copy of the file and includes a log of the changes, I would always advise that you use sensible file names and record what is what. I did get myself lost once or twice.

I’ve also found it hard on the F4 to hold a constant throttle in neutral e.g 5000 RPM for noise tests etc at circuits. So I’ve set the max RPM in neutral (Rain map only) to be 5000 RPM, a simple mod but one less headache.

I find the software very intuitive and positive to use. By that I mean that there are sufficient confirmation boxes and the on screen prompts are clear and precise. The maps carry graphs for 2 & 3d maps, the 3d maps have a simple colour gradient to aid in understanding. There is also a live data facility so that you can actually watch the live on a particular map.

The data logging is also comprehensive and proven very useful in the quickshifter developments below. The data that can be logged is wide ranging, (sorry I’ve not created a list) but it is far more than what you would get from the basic CAN interface. From RPM, current gear, selected riding mode, QS voltage, requested load, actual load etc. Any combination of the data can logged to a local PC. I’ve been logging to a little Toshiba libretto with a solid state drive just to get real data on the QS when actually riding. I understand that there is a remote logger in development, I'll be getting that as soon as its available.

A word of warning:
there is the opportunity to do far more than with a power commander or similar product, with this comes a responsibility. If you mess with things you don’t understand, be prepared for the potential of a catastrophic failure potentially with you on the bike. While you can set the RPM limit in the software to 18000 rpm, the bike will not like it. Know your limits!


I should at this point say a massive thank you to Luca at ECU Studio for all of his help, assistance and patience, over the past couple of months while I have been trying to learn the ins and outs.

Last edited by dansoarr; 09-14-2016 at 01:26 AM.
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post #2 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 01:20 AM Thread Starter
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2. QuickShifter Standard Equipment
The standard F4 / F4RR (I think the RC is different) uses a Starlane NRG strain based sensor for the quick shifter. The sensor has its own interface electronics in the loom (connector) providing the ECU with an amplified voltage centred about 2.5v dc. Speaking to Starlane they confirmed that MV are responsible for the software and ECU interface to interpret the signals.

Once the Starlane sensor is setup I have managed to get reliable quick shifter action, however it is not easy to set up, as MV do not provide as standard any signal feedback for verification of operation, I do understand that the full Starlane product provides this feedback.

The torque that the screw is tightened to and the type of screw used all have major impacts to performance of the sensor. I have managed to get better performance by reducing the length of the collar on the screw and a very slight skim on the collar diameter.

My setup method, rather than using a torque setting, is to do the screw up until the lever play on the splines is removed. I then road test with the RHS faring off, keep stopping and tightening the screw a little until I get a good quick shift operation.

I have not managed to get a reliable balanced signal response for up & down shifts at the same time, note the F4 does not have a blipper down shift as standard.


3. QuickShifter Alternate Equipment
I wanted to find something that could provide an easier system to set up, but without having an add-on system given the limited space available. Something directly compatible with the Starlane and bi-directional. I have accepted that I would need to use a shift rod with aftermarket rearsets.

After much searching and testing of various systems on other bikes, I opted for Translogic Durashift GP sensor. Translogic supply the sensor for the F3 and maybe the F4 RC (need conformation of this), Translogic said several times that the supply all of MV's quickshifters, I have corrected them on this as the F4 does not use their system and the sensor would not work with a direct acting lever as on the F4.

This does mean that while it is not standard, it is as MV as it can be, as they are a supplier to MV.

The downside with the Durashift is that a model of the system acts like 2 pre-loaded switches (SPDT) wired in series. Connected to these are 4 500ohm resistors in series.
A tapping between each resistor is fed to the switches such that at rest you have the following
• At Rest: a potential divider of 1k in series with 1k, giving a voltage of 0.5 vcc (5v from ecu) circa 2.5v
• Shift Up: a potential divider of 500R in series with 1.5k, giving a voltage of 0.75 vcc (5v from ecu) circa 3.75v
• Shift Down: a potential divider of 1.5k in series with 500R, giving a voltage of 0.25 vcc (5v from ecu) circa 1.25v

Note: The output voltages are ratio-metric, so if the ECU voltage is low the output voltages will be proportionally low.

The Nemo ECU seems to have a 10k pull-up on the ECU input which acts in parallel to this resistor network. This results in the voltages being a little different to what you might expect for a pure potential divider. As I don't have access to the MV algorithms for the QS, I cannot say if this offset is the primary reason why the sensor did not work. It may be that at power up the sensor must be within a certain tolerance of the expected norm.

The Durashift sensor is a plug in replacement which is good (assuming you have rearsets utilising a shiftrod), however it does not work, and my suspicion is that the voltage when at rest and or at each shift level is incompatible with the levels MV use for the Starlane strain based system.

Solution 1
There may be a simpler solution, my solution so far is based on building a system that I could tune and test multiple parameters. As yet I have not conducted tests to see if I can simplify the modifications. As a working premise I prefer to add a part rather than modify a supplier’s part as this means I have a simple purchase route for replacements.

Having measured and monitored the Starlane sensor voltages and profiles I have a specification to build to. I built an interface that sits in series between the ECU connector and the QS. My interface is supplied from the 5v nominal from the ECU and has the following modules:

1. 3 configurable voltages, one for at rest/upshift/downshift, these are 2.5/4.5/0.5v respectively
2. 2 voltage sensor circuits used to identify each of the shift voltage levels from the Durashift (these voltages are not compatible with the MV well mine at least)
3. An analogue switch arrangement (electronically controlled semiconductor switches not relays) that are controlled by the voltage sensor circuits. These route the required voltages (see 1) to the ECU.

Note: You may need to reverse the sensor to get the up-shift to work.

It may be sufficient to only adjust the at rest voltage, I've not tested that. The interface now replicates the levels seen from the Starlane.
There is a small amount of capacitance added to change the square wave shift to a waveform that creates a slower rising edge. The ECU appears tolerant of the longer shift signals seen from a switch based rather than a strain based system which is a more transient signal.

Solution 2 - which is what I am now running
Use ECU Studio and adjust the voltages there and just use the sensor as is.


If anyone wants further details then give me a shout and I will share whatever I have, part numbers for connectors to circuit theory.

I know its daft but riding an MV gives me a huge smile, far bigger than any other bike I had including my 2-strokes. Adding essentially superfluous features (which I have been guilty of scoffing at in the past) such as QS and Down Blipper along with the bark from a none exhaust valve equipped bike, should not change my opinion of the MV, but has accentuated the smile even more.

Once again a massive thank you to all the suppliers who have helped me get this far.

All the best (and sorry for the long post)
christosc and christosc like this.

Arron

----------------------------------------
2015 MV F4, ABS
ECU Mapped with ECUstudio
QS & Blipper working with ECUstudio

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GSXR 750

Last edited by dansoarr; 09-14-2016 at 12:27 PM.
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post #3 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 02:33 AM
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Thanks Arron, I was looking forward to this post. My little brain will have to read it a couple of times to digest.
Glad you're happy with the results, that's a lot of work done.

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post #4 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 10:15 AM
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This is great, thanks for posting the update.

The auto blipper function would definitely interest me. Can you confirm that you're able to manually disable the O2 sensor? I ask because I'm considering a new manifold next year.

Also are you able to locate anything that allows adjustment of the activation temperature for the radiator cooling fan?

Lastly this may be a stupid question, but does the software allow you to save an entire map of everything just in case you start adjusting stuff and you screw something up so that you can reload it again.
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post #5 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
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Spark,
disabling the O2 sensor yes. I've not seen anything that pertains to the temperature the fan comes on at, but I do know there is plenty of stuff in there that's not switched on for us to change yet. As I said in my post if its a request and sufficient people want it then I'm sure it will get the attention. I will ask explicitly on this one as it would be cool to have (pun intended).

The user file if you like is a complete bin file. By this I mean it the whole ECU data, the maps, the program for the ECU the whole thing. Clearly the software, presents only the bits of the software we are allowed to change e.g the ignition map. All changes are held in that file. You can flash the whole ECU (Program + maps) this takes a few mins or just the maps and this takes a few seconds.

I tend to save a different bin file with each mod as it makes it easy to keep track. The images below are quick screenshots one of the list of maps and one showing the info tab showing the tracked changes.

If you want images or further explanation then please shout.
Attached Images
  

Arron

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QS & Blipper working with ECUstudio

others
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GSXR 750

Last edited by dansoarr; 09-14-2016 at 12:25 PM.
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post #6 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 01:14 PM
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does it come wit bike specific maps or can you use MV map as base and start modding?

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post #7 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
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The F4 map comes with the latest map as supplied by MV, which you can use as a basis for modification.

Before i flashed for the first time, i took it to a dyno, checked the current performance / AFR and then flashed it there and then on the dyno. Did a back to back comparison. Was basically the same but a little better as it was the very latest map from MV.

To start with i just used it as is to get a reliable quick shift and blipper. The next mod was thottle mapping so that it feels better, a very personal thing.

I've also recieved the updated files, free of charge, as new features are released. All I do then is copy each table I've modified in to the new file and flash. So i get the new features with my mapping and setting.

Arron

----------------------------------------
2015 MV F4, ABS
ECU Mapped with ECUstudio
QS & Blipper working with ECUstudio

others
GSXR 1000
GSXR 750

Last edited by dansoarr; 09-14-2016 at 01:40 PM.
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post #8 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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I'm also happy to share my settings, use at your own risk. I've tweeked the qs settings as I'm running different gearing. So i have a Map for Cadwell Park and a different one for Mallory Park etc as the gearing is quite different as is the throttle control.

Arron

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2015 MV F4, ABS
ECU Mapped with ECUstudio
QS & Blipper working with ECUstudio

others
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post #9 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dansoarr View Post
The F4 map comes with the latest map as supplied by MV, which you can use as a basis for modification.

Before i flashed for the first time, i took it to a dyno, checked the current performance / AFR and then flashed it there and then on the dyno. Did a back to back comparison. Was basically the same but a little better as it was the very latest map from MV.

To start with i just used it as is to get a reliable quick shift and blipper. The next mod was thottle mapping so that it feels better, a very personal thing.

I've also recieved the updated files, free of charge, as new features are released. All I do then is copy each table I've modified in to the new file and flash. So i get the new features with my mapping and setting.
I know Luca mentioned that when purchasing this, the cost includes lifetime updates of the software. Does ECU studio also connect to MV to obtain their own latest map updates?
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post #10 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spark View Post
I know Luca mentioned that when purchasing this, the cost includes lifetime updates of the software. Does ECU studio also connect to MV to obtain their own latest map updates?
No, as I understand it Luca takes the latest updates from MV and creates the updated ECU Studio map. You are correct that the licence cost per ECU is for life of the ECU. As I have the hardware, if someone buys a licence I can flash their bike, that's the approach Luca is taking.

Its a shame your not closer I could show you, Texas is a bit far, I'd need a very long cable.

Arron

----------------------------------------
2015 MV F4, ABS
ECU Mapped with ECUstudio
QS & Blipper working with ECUstudio

others
GSXR 1000
GSXR 750

Last edited by dansoarr; 09-14-2016 at 02:05 PM.
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