Cryo treat my engine? -
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-17-2016, 01:34 AM Thread Starter
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Cryo treat my engine?

While riding my bike I was recently approached by owner of a local "road race & F1 engine building" shop w/ an offer to "Cryo" treat my motor $1,500.00U.S (includes removal, replacement & tune, if any) of my motor. It sounds good (he says: all of the "F1 & GP Racing" motor companies do it before using a race engine), I've never heard of it? Anyone have any experience w/ this? -Davis

Here is the info he emailed me:

Scientists have known for years that material transformations occur when they are exposed to cryogenic temperatures. Many of the early discoveries were more fully explored by NASA engineers who were trying to understand what would happen to metals when subjected to the extreme temperatures of space. Today, a wide range of commercial items from softball bats to race engines are cryogenically treated to improve their performance by enhancing the material properties with "cold treating" or cryogenic processing. This technology brings practical application. Cryogenic treatment modifies the microstructure of the metals used in critical Metal components by reducing or eliminating voids and imperfections in the material. Crystal structures (or grains) has been shown to be modified after cryogenic treatment, creating a more uniform or homogenous microstructure. The thermal dissipation properties of the metals are improved, reducing hot spots and further contributing to extended life and improved performance. In addition, the physical contraction of the metals while under the deep freeze imparts a mechanical compression on the metals that contributes to improved quality and speed. The materials used in High performance engines are highly fabricated and the manufacturing processes used impart or induce stresses in them.

In addition, welding and soldering adds additional stress from concentrated areas of heating. Most everyone recognizes that welded components often fail at the weld -- a "weak" spot. The weakness comes from residual stresses inherent in all materials, further exacerbated by manufacturing techniques or processes. Cryogenic treatment relieves stresses and normalizes (or stabilizes) welded and soldered areas. This mechanism is founded in the observation first made by J. Robert Oppenheimer and later by Einstein, that matter is at it most relaxed state when it has the least amount of kinetic energy (or molecular activity). Absolute zero (-459 Fahrenheit) is that point where no more energy can be extracted, or when a material is at its most "relaxed" state.

While our Cryoset (R) thermal treatment does not get to absolute zero, you can understand how going to minus 300 degrees Fahrenheit for an extended dwell time enables the material to become more relaxed and stress relieved. The transformations as a result of cryogenic treatment is permanent, and does not change with time.
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-17-2016, 02:19 AM
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I have heard of components being treated this way.....but not a complete engine.
Can't imagine parts like rubber valve stem seals liking it very much.

I'm interested to hear more

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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-17-2016, 05:43 AM
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Evolutionbike in Italy do offer a similar service...see..

Sure you could email them and ask if worthwhile although as they sell the service i think they will say yes..
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-17-2016, 11:17 AM
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You obviously have a great deal of money that you need a use for. I have a very desirable collection of used rear tyres and I'm looking for an investor who wants to help me use them to save the planet. PM me if interested.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-17-2016, 12:02 PM
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Unless your looking to build massive HP from the engine it is a waste of money. It will make the components stronger, but it's not going to benefit you in any way if it remains a stock/close to stock engine.

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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-17-2016, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by SwilliF4 View Post
Unless your looking to build massive HP from the engine it is a waste of money. It will make the components stronger, but it's not going to benefit you in any way if it remains a stock/close to stock engine.
I'm with you on that one Swilli. My two cents on any "performance improvements" is how are they going to benefit you. If you have an unlimited budget and you're racing against Ian Hutchinson...okay. If you're just the occasional track rider and/or not at the pro level, it's not going to help in any significant way. I have a friend who is a road bike (as in bicycle) racer on the amateur level. He shaves his legs and says it gives him better lap times. Really??? Maybe it does but the millionth of a second he saves doesn't matter at his level of competition. Like I 2 cents.

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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-18-2016, 09:00 AM
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+1 Spend the money on training. Unless you're chasing podiums on the track already, you'll get a lot faster by simply learning to ride the bike better than spending money chasing extra power that you don't have the skills to access. In this instance, as SwilliF4 has already stated, the cryo treatment simply makes the engine components stronger so that they can be placed under greater stress before failure. Unless you are also throwing the money at components that will place the engine under greater stress then its a complete waste of money.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-18-2016, 08:46 PM
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Not much point for strengthening OEM components unless you remove mass and hope cryo treatment will compensate.

Worth replacing the steel plates in the clutch with cryo treated aluminium, bit less rotational inertia. (if you're a racer)

Lots of published scientific articles on cryo treatment, it's not as simple as dumping the stuff in a vat of liquid nitrogen and sloshing it around for a few minutes.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-19-2016, 12:11 AM
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I don't think I'd survive that much relaxation/stress relief.
I think I'll stick with beer!

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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-19-2016, 02:16 PM
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In fairness its a well respected process. There's a place near me does it. I tuned a Subaru to the point where the gearbox was living on a prayer. Always said if I broke the gearbox I'd cryo treat gears 1, 2 and 3 before I rebuilt it. Actually it survived perfectly well.
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