MV Brutale poor low rpm throttle response - survey - Page 3 - MVAgusta.net
View Poll Results: Low RPM throttle problem on MV Brutale?
Did not have this problem with my Brutale 20 32.26%
Got problem fixed under warranty 0 0%
could not get it fixed under warranty spent my own cash with a specialist 8 12.90%
Still have the issue just putting up with it 28 45.16%
other 6 9.68%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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post #21 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-07-2013, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exup View Post
I disagree that this is a common problem for modern sport bikes. Having tested the same bike as a demo version all be it 2012 model it did not have this gap of 4000 rpm.
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Ah, well you have major issues and should not be spending your own money, all I was speaking about was on/off throttle, mine was on/off from idle to 2000 rpm, above that no issues with the 1090.

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Last edited by billywhizzz; 10-07-2013 at 02:42 PM.
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post #22 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-08-2013, 11:41 AM
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What I can say to this issue:

1. you do not need a Microtec (although it has a lot of features plus). The Magneti Marelli ECU can be flashed via Rexxer Platinum Software. Full access to fueling and ignition.
There are Rexxer point all over the world.

2. the bad throttle response is not a problem of running lean. My RR war running very rich down to 11,5:1 with the MV Corse ECU and 12,8:1 at idle. It is a problem of retarded ignition. My dyno guy never before saw such "late" ingition points on any other bikes he did. And he does a lot of race engines of all producers. On weekends he "lives" at the European racetracks.....

3. My bike needed to be leaned out by nearly 30% to run best (Corse ECU). TPS was set to MV specs.

4. The heat problem now is solved as the retarded ignition is causing this.

5. My guess is that MV was not able to cure the problems of NOx emmissions (Engines burns not only oxygen, but also nitrogen). So they retarded the ignition that much.....

With the standard ECU my bike fired app. 9l/100km (26mpg) and with the Corse ECU 10l/100km (23.5 mpg).

Now I'm fine with 7.5 l/100km (31.5mpg) and 160hp at rear wheel. Decatted, no snorkels & inner tubes in airbox.

Engine feels very smooth and very trustable regarding throttle response. That's much more worth than the MV "traction control" !!!

Jochen
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post #23 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-08-2013, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherche View Post
What I can say to this issue:


Now I'm fine with 7.5 l/100km (31.5mpg) and 160hp at rear wheel. Decatted, no snorkels & inner tubes in airbox.


Jochen
31.5 is not good..? 40+ is no problem with the correct mapping.

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post #24 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-08-2013, 03:56 PM
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hey cherche,
Do they require the bike to set these up or could you send your ecu to one of these dealers and have them flash it? I looked at the costs to buy a Rexxer mapper, but it's a bit prohibitive

Speed is relative, but fast is fast.

- 2011 brutale 1090R (Matte pearl white/Black)
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post #25 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-08-2013, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
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OK thanks for this information, keep it coming.

@JimboF4 - thanks for pointing out my typo I can see now the differences in ECU manufacturers, Microtec (not Microtech)

@ Cherche - yes interested in the Rexxer, but maybe post sorting this issue out. Cheaper potentially than buying a new ECU which is around $1500 plus dyno time.

Just an update from X-bikes they seem to think the issue is not ECU (but is hard not being able to physically get to the bike) and recommend I pester MV like hell to fix it under warranty. So as suggested earlier will post on MV USA Facebook a question about this. There is one other 2013 Brutale owner with the same problem, but he has an RR? which is completely different Throttle assembly. Also ProTechMotorCycle have offered help and advice but being 4 hours up the coast, it would mean shipping the bike up there and leaving it with them and its my sole transport at the moment. (I have five other bikes but are all in restoration mode ahem! ) So if I cant fix myself or under warranty I will sort out some transport and ship it up to them.

Everyone is being very helpful with advice which is great so I am sticking with it and maybe learn something from it.

So I will focus on what the TPS is doing. With that I have some questions.

1. The Throttle Body blades/valves should be at 2.1 degrees when shut (idle position) correct?
2. What is the voltage at this point that the TPS is outputting, my 2010 workshop manual has it at 0.25 to 0.75 volt range. Mine is 1.10 volts.
3. Wide open voltage is 4.5 to 5.0 (mine was 4.1)
4. My bike is a 2013, does anyone have access to 2013 workshop manuals – happy to pay for them but can’t find where to get them from. Thanks to Donsy for all the existing manuals.

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post #26 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-08-2013, 09:22 PM
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Can you confirm which ecu is in your bike? I was of the understanding that the 2013 and beyond get the MVICS system which uses the Eldor ecu.
1.1v seems high for the idle point, but without the manual all we can do is guess.
If it is the later electronics, there have been a few reported issues with the ride by wire, specifically the throttle assembly.

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post #27 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-08-2013, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
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Hi, on mine the ECU is IAW 5SM A27 (Magneti)
Remember this is an R model not RR so there are a lot of differences between the two.
I have taken the throttle grip and cables apart to ensure there are no pinch points or hangups.
The TPS does have the ability to adjust the angle, it is right at the end of the scale of adjustment, meaning I cant get the volts to drop by rotating it clockwise (as you look at it) unless I shave off some plastic, rotating it anticlockwise just increases the base voltage.
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post #28 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-08-2013, 10:35 PM
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by exup View Post
Hi, on mine the ECU is IAW 5SM A27 (Magneti)
Remember this is an R model not RR so there are a lot of differences between the two.
I have taken the throttle grip and cables apart to ensure there are no pinch points or hangups.
The TPS does have the ability to adjust the angle, it is right at the end of the scale of adjustment, meaning I cant get the volts to drop by rotating it clockwise (as you look at it) unless I shave off some plastic, rotating it anticlockwise just increases the base voltage.
Was the throttle response this bad before you started moving the TPS around ?

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post #29 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 05:03 AM Thread Starter
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I think if I touch the TPS that would break my warranty surely (cough cough) ;0)

That said this issue has always been with the bike from day 1. What you see on the video was taken just after I bought it.

Taking it to the shop I bought it from and other shops all advised not to touch the TPS. It is factory set and not to fiddle with it.


That said as I am not getting anywhere with warranty support I will be touching it soon as I get the Centurion from Technoresearch
http://www.technoresearch.com/index.php?pid=68

But I had a close look at it and the TPS when I took apart the throttle cables, it is hard up against one of the throttle body frame work. There is no range of movement in clockwise direction that I can see. You can deduce that rotating the TPS anticlockwise would mean the resistance in the potentiometer would increase and thus the voltage increase. I simply unplugged the TPS connector and shoved two pins down the feed and supply lines and measured the voltage.

I will let you know what happens if I rotate it if this is the case and post the results. Before moving it I will make a score mark so can return it to normal if nothing works.

Now I am thinking how is the TPS connecting to the butterfly valves, perhaps its is on a spline, and its one or two teeth out of alignment? I might take it off all together and see.
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post #30 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billywhizzz View Post
31.5 is not good..? 40+ is no problem with the correct mapping.
Not in my riding style here in the hills around the Rhine, Mosella and Nuerburgring racetrack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckler View Post
hey cherche,
Do they require the bike to set these up or could you send your ecu to one of these dealers and have them flash it? I looked at the costs to buy a Rexxer mapper, but it's a bit prohibitive
You need to find a dyno guy who has the REXXER Platinum software. Here the cost is 200 € (incl. 19% sales tax) for the license for your ECU. The rest is cost for the mapping on the dyno, in my case 250 € . Many Ducati tuners use the Rexxer for the Panigale & Co.

Quote:
Originally Posted by exup View Post
Hi, on mine the ECU is IAW 5SM A27 (Magneti)
Remember this is an R model not RR so there are a lot of differences between the two.
My 2013 RR also uses the old Magneti Marelli IAW 5SM. The 2013 F4 and the triples use the Eldor.

Jochen

I motori sono come le donne, bisogna saperli toccare nelle parti piu' sensibili.......
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