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Brutale 1090r 2011 ECU problem

5K views 26 replies 8 participants last post by  Barboy2 
#1 ·
Sorry for the double post, I moved this post from the welcome area)

Hoping to get a very long story (almost 2 months now) rather short. Purchase a 2011 1090r Brutale last february when snow finaly melted, my bike ran fine for...100 km. Then it ran on 3 cylinders (intermittent). Too it to the dealer

At the MV shop:
Spark plugs changed
Cables cheked THOROUGHLY
injectors checked
Coils checked

Culprit ECU. That's what the diagnostic tool of the dealer said.

Bought the exact same part second hand on EBAY. It came with the key (IGNITION KEY ECU ECM LOCK SET). When all is installed now the bike doesn't start, the headlight blinks, so do the flashers. The dealer said that I bought a faulty ECU. If my ECU is put back, it starts and run on 3 cylinders. I can't believe the two are faulty, especially the second one. It must be something in the configuration, I mean, it has to be...

If it is indeed the ECU, is there any alternatives to the original ECU which is insanely priced (1 319 Euros- 1 940 Can$)?

Thanks in advance,

Eric
 
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#2 ·
Barboy,

My bet is a coil despite being 'checked'. Not saying it can't happen but 2 x faulty ecu's? Not too many posts about faulty ecu's on here, especially your model. I've dropped a few coils over the years especially in the wet. If your going to buy an original ecu put your money into a Microtec from Chris at X-Bikes, best money you'll ever spend. Probably cheaper too. Your dealer sounds like he took the easy options. Other forum members may have one for sale or an original you can test.

Cheers

Deano
 
#3 · (Edited)
thanks a bunch for the quick reply. The coils have been swapped and the problem remained. https://www.microtec.cc/en/standard-production/motor-sport/m226-m227/ would be your suggestion?

And to improve my knowledge about this, the second hand ECU I bought shoud have been just plug and play isn't it? Is there something mystic about plugging an ECU? It can't be more complicated than flash the ECU then update the software can it?
 
#4 ·
Hey Barboy, I've changed a number of ECU's on my Gen-2 bikes and never needed a 'key' set. I've only seen keys being required for a new Dash...not the ECU. (unless I've misread what you said) - so that doesn't sound right.

The Gen2 dash will display a "Coil N" fault if it detects and actual coil problem and show you which cycl has the problem.

I've also resolved what I thought was a coil problem, when I changed the submerged filter - so the cycl wasn't firing and it was moving being cycl 2 and 4. (I wouldn't exclude a aged fuel/filter as being a contributor to the problem)

As Deano said, the Gen2 ECU is a pretty reliable unit and even single failures are rare - and yes Chris' ECU's a excellent.
 
#5 ·
When I purchased the ECU it came with the whole thing and the dealer said they changed everything (pic attached) I thought there was a necessity to change the key with the ECU (at least, that's what they told me). I will have an update on what's on the dash tomorrow morning and will keep you updated.

I lost it a little when he told me the second ECU was bad too. I meant, what are the odds, it make no sense.

It's always the 4th cylinder that is he problem. The mechanic made the 4th cylinder run by swapping a coil. Could a clogged fuel filter do this due to loss of fuel pressure?

Thanks guys
 

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#6 ·
You DO NOT need a new key to change the ECU, revert to original ignition/key and new ECU (step 1). These are smart ignitions hence why the bike is probably in an immobilized state.
 
#8 ·
one more thing...

My original problem was that the engine was running on three instead of four but at least it was running. AT WORST, could jut block the fuel to enter the 4th cylinder in some way and drive on three without more problems exept loss of power and rough idle?
 
#9 · (Edited)
Unless I am confused, I believe your bike is the last of the MVs with the Marelli 5SM ECU. A pretty reliable and trouble free unit. Odd that it would have a fault with one ignition coil circuit.
What are the last nine digits of your VIN?? That will tell us what yer model it actually is.

The diagnostic software contains active control tests for the ignition and injector circuits, so if the dealer ran the diagnostic software he is probably correct.

A blocked or failed injector would cause the same symptom.

I suspect the second ECU is having an immobilizer issue with the key, and thinks the bike is being stolen. Again, the diagnostic software contains immobilizer test/configure section.
The immobilizer is in the dash.... so you need to put your original key switch back on and try that first.

Is there an alternative? Yes...you could get a Microtec ECU from Chris at X-Bikes to replace the Marelli 5SM ...for about the same cost.
 
#10 · (Edited)
thanks a bunch again mates. The thing is getting clearer. It is indeed a Marelli 5SM (8A00B5568 for the part number). As for the Microtec ECU from Chris at X-Bikes, I'm in Canada and the part is roughly the same price as an original part. I have no confidence in the guys working on my bike so anything not stock is I guess another challenge for them.

I really hope reverting to the original key will do the trick. If it works, I'll need your adresses to send you a beer!

edit: Just phoned my mechanic, he was surprised that the immobilizer was in the dash /facepalm . Some expert! He will try it later this afternoon or at the beginning of next week. Thanks again for the hope you've given me!

VIN: XBV002498
 
#11 ·
By the way...welcome to the family !!!

And Yes, your bike is a 2011....that was the last year with the 5SM ECU.
 
#13 · (Edited)
update

Damn! I was absolutely convinced that the original key and switch with the new ECU would do the trick, it did not. Again, I'm not aside the bike (250 km) so I have to rely on what they tell me:

Original switch and key second hand ECU:
Dash indicates the flashers flashing and high beam on and beam is not lit and flashers are not blinking
Engine doesn't attemp start

Second hand ECU and switch and key:
Dash indicates the flashers flashing and high beam on and beam is not lit and flashers are not blinking
Engine doesn't attemp start

Original ECU, key and switch:
Everything ok but runs on 3 cylinders (4th is the culprit)

The dealer told me that the only way they can figure to fix this is by getting an original ECU from the shop, configured with my VIN. I seriously think this is bullshit. How could someone install a microtec then (which I told the dealer with my pissed off tone).

Knowing that the fuel injection is via a shared duct, I reasoned that the filter change Cruiser talked about could make sense; clogged filter would reduce pressure to the injector. I told them to try that. It's the last thing they will do after a semi heated exchange when they told me they had already spent 10 hours on the bike for an ECU-key switch swap and verification of the ECU I purchased.

P.S.: there is still beer on the line for the correct solution!
 
#14 ·
You have successfully proved that the immobiliser is doing it’s job.
Go back to the original configuration and get them to do the basic stuff.
If the coil is toast, the plug will be wet. If the fuel is the issue , the plug will be dry.
To rule it out, check if the cylinder has compression. I doubt there will be an issue, but check anyway.

If they have already spent 10 hours, you are up for a big bill. It might pay to ask them what diagnostic package they have been using. I am a little suspicious about their skills, or there is something lost in the communications.
 
#15 ·
you're right mate, skills seems to be the issue here. They say they spend a lot of time talking with MV about the issue. There might also be a lot lost in the communications. What I know for shure is that there is fuel injection in the 4th cylinder, that the spark plug is new, that the cables from the ECU to the coils are perfect. I also think that the coil is good since if swapped with another coil, it works.
Unless I'm wrong, what is left would be the ECU not sending the signal or insufficient fuel pressure coming from the pump and not burning appropriately.

In my mind, the ECU I bought should have been plug and play. The guy was surprised to know that the immobilizer was not part of the ECU. This is my ECU (from Magneti Marelli website): STAND-ALONE CONTROL UNIT FOR TRADITIONAL ARCHITECTURE (IAW 5SM)

The “stand-alone” type of control unit, designed to support “traditional” architecture, is made using high-density SMD technology and weighs approximately 300 grams. It can withstand operating temperatures from –40°C to +105°C, and the connections to the external input/output are carried out through two connectors with 64 ways each.

It can also withstand high levels of vibrations (up to 30 g).

The control unit pilots up to 4 injection channels and 4 independent ignition channels and, for those versions that require it, the exhaust and secondary air valve position control.

Mixing is controlled through 2 lambda probes of the heated ON/OFF type.

The traction control management is integrated in the system at the logic level. The reduced overall dimensions make it easier to install on the vehicle.

Beats me why it wasn't plug and play then...
 
#18 ·
Just so you know...the MV Agusta North America service rep is a Canadian (although he lives in the USA now) so I don't think there is a language barrier. :rolleyes:

I do hope you get it sorted.
 
#20 ·
The ECU should be marked as to the model of bike.
Any 5SM ECU can run any bike with a 5SM ECU as original equipment.
The state of tune will not be optimized if the programming is for a different model or year.

The fact that the fourth cylinder came alive with a coil switch points to something other than fueling through the injectors.
 
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