Brutale 1078RR difficult start up - MVAgusta.net
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-03-2018, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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Brutale 1078RR difficult start up

Hi folks! Looking for help here!
My 1078RR has been with me for 68k kilometers and it has problems starting up. Makes a couple of lazy slow crank moves and stops. Then it may finally start up on the 4th attempt but often after a couple of tries it feels like the battery starts to die. This is especially apparent when it's hot, i.e. I may turn it off after some time riding, then immediately try to start again and it won't do it. It usually does cold starts well. My 989 and 910 always start up fine every time in a fraction of a second, smooth as butter. Nobody is none the wiser about what may causing it, I've swapped batteries around, changed wiring in places - no difference. It's been like that since day one. It's a known problem perhaps? Hope someone can offer some advice where to look.

I've also had intermittent clutch problems with it, various odd things that come and go. Don't know if that's related somehow.

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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-03-2018, 06:28 PM
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Listened to your zip flie. You need to change the battery cables, both positive and negative to something heavy duty. I made my own but kits are available as are posts on the subject on the site. It fixed this problem on mine. The battery also needs to be good. I put a C-Tec charger on mine every couple of months even though it's ridden regularly. The hard hot starting also sounds like it's a bit rich and the intakes need a balance.

You didn't specify the clutch problems so I can't comment.

Cheers

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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-04-2018, 02:05 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Deano. Thanks for giving the clues!
By battery cables do you mean all of them? I never got into how wiring works and they have a different number of wires on 989 and 1078, but should I just replace the cables that go straight from the battery to the first contact? In other words, what is the extent of this replacement: just those three or four wires or should I go even further?

As for the clutch problems there were also things that nobody could really explain and that led me to (na´vely, perhaps) suspect that on neutral something in the clutch was "holding" the shaft not allowing it to rotate freely.
So the clutch problems are:
  1. Hard gear switching, always has been like that, never could be remedied with changing disks, cylinders or anything else we tried. 910 and 989 are smooooth, just touch the gear switch and there you go. On this 1078 you have to force it sometimes, not too hard but it's noticeable. 989 once had a problem like that with very had switching and that either went away by itself or was fixed by changing disks - can't remember, but it's gone now.
  2. Once it started rolling by itself while on neutral. Like the clutch never completely disengaged. I was riding, shifted to neutral and it just kept going on and on. There was no slope. Went away by itself.
  3. We changed disks not too long ago because I could hardly change gears anymore, well those came out somewhat warped and about 1000 km in I have this problematic switching again which doesn't bother me too much because it's not totally bad. Wonder if the disks come out warped again, what could that be a sign of? They tell me it's my "bad riding style" yet, say 910 never ever required changing disks in its 55k km lifespan.
Engaging gear from neutral shakes up the entire bike with a noticeable shaky CLICK. Unlike 989 and 910 where you cannot even feel it. Don't know if it's model specific or something wrong with this one.

I'll have the mixture checked again, but I think we did that twice already.
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-04-2018, 04:46 AM
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Have you bled the clutch, sounds like an issue with the slave or master cylinder not engaging the clutch correctly?

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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-04-2018, 07:14 AM
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@Buck: The 1078 has a slipper clutch unlike the 989 and 910. That slipper clutch requires very thorough bleeding and will exhibit a "click" through the system when shifting.

As for the hard starting, this is also a known issue that can be resolved by installing a battery with high cold cranking amperage and by improving the electrical contact at the start solenoid. That start solenoid lives just behind the battery box under the seat.

As you can imagine, there is almost nothing new under the sun when discussing issues with motorcycles. There are several threads within mva.net that cover these issues and repairs in depth. ADVANCED SEARCH can be your friend when looking for resolution.

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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-04-2018, 08:17 AM
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Change the battery to a lithium
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-04-2018, 09:01 AM
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Since you swapped batteries with your other MVs that do start easily I will assume battery is not the problem.

Check the heavy battery cables to the engine/frame ground and also to/from the starter relay to the starter. This is what Deano is referring too. Especially the ground.

Get an ammeter capable of reading 300+ volts and check your starter current draw. When first pressing the button it will spike to 200~270 amps and quickly drop to +/- 90 (or less) as starter spins. Higher than that and you have a starter with compromised armature or brushes.

Finally, do a compression test. Engine should spin easily and immediately with plugs removed. If your compression reading is higher than specification you could have a cam off one tooth in timing. Bike may run OK but the increased compression makes it hard for the starter to get moving. I have seen this many times on other brands of bikes.

Good luck.

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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-04-2018, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. I've since found one recent thread about the same problem. It was inconclusive though. Basically folks suggested re-wiring and the poster didn't exactly confirm it fixed things. But I do agree that with 1078 hardly anything is new. But this time... I just wanted to go ahead and ask away because I knew I'd bury myself forever in forum topics and my head was already hurting... sorry.

So,
yes we bled the clutch multiple times, changed cylinder from the original to some other "better" one, it went for multiple thousands of kilometers then we changed it back to the original - absolutely zero difference did it made to anything.
I've ridden with Antigravity battery for a couple of years - it did start up a little differently but the problem was still there.

esq'z me, now those are some fresh suggestions I'm eager to try! Just not sure exactly where I should put the ammeter in the electrical chain - should I disconnect some cable and put it in-between or should I just touch the relay contacts with its probes...
Thanks for the tip about compression and cam - definitely have to check that!

I'll update this thread if anything works out.
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-04-2018, 04:25 PM
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Buck,

Change to heavier duty cables on the battery. There are two red and one black. One red (short) goes to the start solenoid near the battery and the long to the starter motor. The black is earthed to the frame. It's a tank off job for sure. This is your problem which can exacerbated by poor battery charge. You'll see a big difference straight away.

My 1078 clunks like fuck when I engage first gear. Without compromising the rear hub don't run the chain too slack, it makes it worse. I've posted before on gearbox issues. My gearbox is either smooth as butter or a clunky piece of shit. Seems to be worse as the mileage grows. I suspect some wear issues with the slipper clutch and will check it out when I get round to it. Maybe my plates are slightly warped too. Mine seems to like high revs going up or down which smooths things out a lot.

Cheers

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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-05-2018, 02:28 AM Thread Starter
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Deano, I've got two blacks, one red actually. Cannot be that you have it different? The red goes as you describe, one negative goes on the left together with the red from the solenoid/relay behind the battery (I think that's the frame one) and the other goes on the right side joining a bunch of other wires.

Are the terminals the same everywhere? I'd be crimping them myself, just don't know if MV use different sizes on the battery side and on the frame/engine side and elsewhere. The solenoid ones seem to be the same.
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