Temperature Issues - MVAgusta.net
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Old 06-28-2018, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
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Temperature Issues

I purchased the bike used and un-garaged last fall with about 16.5k miles on it so I wasn't expecting a bike that ran like new...but the engine kept running up into the 228-235 range, and one day it just boiled out of the side of the hose running to the water pump while I was sitting in Flatbush Ave traffic...it might have been registering 238 and blinking at that point? So I shut it off and got it to Moto Velocita where they put in an upgraded water pump, some new tires, brake pads, etc and got me back on the street again. It was running fine, maybe in the 220-228 range, occasionally hitting 230 and holding...but two weeks ago it hit 238 and started blinking, so I shut it down and let it cool off and then got it back home to my garage after things had settled a bit. I decided to go with a dealership this time around and took it to Goldcoast Motorsports in LI, thinking Id have them look into that and spend the $ to get a full tune up and valve adjust, since it hadn't been done by the previous owner. On the drive out it seemed to be running kinda poorly...sputtered when I'd roll on the throttle a number of times and got close to overheating again twice in traffic...so hopefully I've gotten it in none too soon. They told me over the phone that they had all the parts in stock for the full tune and that it'd be back in a day. Once I got it to them, the story changed, and they can't even "hazard a guess" as to when the parts, gaskets, plugs, etc will be shipped from MV and so I'm on hold in the shop until further notice. I've had one suggestion from esqz'me here on the forum that the thermostat might be bad, but I called the first mechanic who said the temps all registered correctly by their measurements. I've asked them to check again at Goldcoast, so hopefully that'll get done. If you can think of any other possible avenues to track this issue down, I'd bee happy to know about it. I love this bike when it's running well. It rides like no other bike I've been on in the last 32 years of riding...makes it hard to appreciate riding anything else any more, actually.
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Old 06-29-2018, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switzerdesigns View Post
I've had one suggestion from esqz'me here on the forum that the thermostat might be bad, but I called the first mechanic who said the temps all registered correctly by their measurements.
Not Thermostat.... Coolant Temperature Sensor.

Anyway, this is a basic cooling system. It is just like almost any other cooling system on any vehicle.
The possible causes are limited, barring major engine tuning problems (ignition timing as example). Would not suspect tuning to be cause as it runs well otherwise.

Since engine temps read with an infra-red heat gun (according to your tech?) and the bike's meter readings are comparable, other things to check are:

Water pump function (was the new one correct and installed properly?)
Thermostat (can be tested, but as long as it is out might as well just replace considering low cost)
Cooling passages (hard to confirm without engine tear down and highly unlikely)
Radiator cap (east to test and the most common failure)
Radiator itself (blockage in the radiator can be confirmed with an infra-red heat gun)

There is nothing else. I hope you have a tech who knows what he is doing.

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Old 06-29-2018, 09:13 AM
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@switzerdesigns: First, let's start with which year and model of bike you are discussing. I have assumed a First Gen (<2009) F4 because of the temperature scale indication you gave.

If you could put the year and model in your signature line through USER CP that would be helpful now and in the future.

There are many threads discussing perceived temperature issues with first gen F4s. Primarily, the issues can be reduced by changing coolant to a better product such as Engine Ice, installing a modified water pump that improves flow AT IDLE, having your ECU tuned to fix the poor ignition timing mapping, and having the fan initiation temperature lowered through the ECU. Some have installed a Microtec ECU to make those changes, others have installed a manual switch for fan initiation.

Tuning the ECU is your best option for solving the issue at the source.

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Old 06-29-2018, 09:40 PM
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switzerdesigns;

1st you didn't say anything about your fans and at what temperature they come on, or if both do
The temperature sensor is a Jaeger #401076......test it, you need an Ohm meter, heat source and thermometer
Test your thermostat it's simple.....but it MUST open fully

Now, if the tests are OK.....
If you have an early 1st Gen F4 with a 1.6M ECU just get a chip from Adam (merc07)
If you have a later 1st Gen F4 with a 5SM ECU, you'll need it reflashed .....
With real fuel and ignition maps and have the fans come on at 85C/185F

See why you should put the year and model in your signature or description
It helps us help you


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Old 06-30-2018, 12:04 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theknurl View Post
switzerdesigns;

1st you didn't say anything about your fans and at what temperature they come on, or if both do
The temperature sensor is a Jaeger #401076......test it, you need an Ohm meter, heat source and thermometer
Test your thermostat it's simple.....but it MUST open fully

Now, if the tests are OK.....
If you have an early 1st Gen F4 with a 1.6M ECU just get a chip from Adam (merc07)
If you have a later 1st Gen F4 with a 5SM ECU, you'll need it reflashed .....
With real fuel and ignition maps and have the fans come on at 85C/185F

See why you should put the year and model in your signature or description
It helps us help you


First of all, big apologies to all for my ineptitude with the year identification on my Brutale...it's an 04, (750) and I'd have sworn I put that in here somewhere, but clearly it wasn't easily viewable, so...I'm sorry about that. Secondly, I'm still trying to find my way around this forum, and I haven't figured it all out yet...but I appreciate any helpful tips/suggestions about posting and etiquette, etc. and hope I'll be forgiven any blunders until I figure this site out. And having said that, it's been pointed out that I need to post the year of my bike somewhere...but I can't see where exactly it should be posted, other than in my profile which already has my bikes year...

I'm astounded at all the knowledge here, and have to admit, most of it feels somewhat beyond my somewhat limited abilities...the most extensive work I've ever gotten into on my bikes is installing running lights, or LED's or doing oil / filter changes and basic maintenance, so the idea of being able to check for blockages in the cooling system with an infra-red heat gun though appealing to me, is beyond my limited tool resources and most likely beyond my knowledge. And because of that I'm afraid I'm at the mercy of the rare few places who will work on MV's around here...unless someone has some recommendations about high quality MV mechanics in the New York Tri state area? Otherwise, I'm just kinda shooting in the dark when it comes to finding a trustworthy mechanic...I went to Moto Velocita, a private mechanic who does work on MV's and they installed the Design Corse "upgraded water pump" which they claimed would make it run cooler, but when I got it home after their installation and turned the bike off, the cooling system made all kinds of gurgling noises....It seemed to me they must've left air in the system, so I picked up some more coolant and an extra bottle of "liquid ice" on my own and was able to get at least a quart or more into the system. It was running fine for a month and a half after that until the temps started hitting the 90's in the city and that's when I started having the overheating issues again.

As I mentioned before, the bike is at an MV / Ducati dealership in Long Island (Goldcoast Motorsports). I made the appointment there last week, and the service manager said they had all the parts necessary for a full tune up, so I could bring it in and have it back in a day, day and a half max. Now for some inexplicable reason the parts are no longer in stock and I've got to wait (no one knows how long, but for sure more than 2-3 weeks) for the parts to come in. Exasperating. I put a call into the owner who apologized for the bad communication and promised to get back to me with "a resolution of some sort". Not holding my breath.

I understand from this dealer that getting parts from MV is nearly impossible to do in any timely way...and if that's true, I feel kind of at the mercy of the parts department and whatever good mechanic I can find to work on the bike.

Having said all that, I've already asked the service manager to look into the cooling issues, and I will ask to have the coolant temp gauge checked...
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Old 06-30-2018, 03:36 AM
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What sort of parts are they waiting on for a tune?
All the service/tune parts are available without ordering from MV.
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Ask questions and they will be answered by very knowledgeable members.


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Old 06-30-2018, 04:54 AM
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switzerdesigns;
Welcome to the Forum

1st go to Tools> User CP> Edit signature......put a signature with whatever info you want, like your 750 Brutale
2nd go to Help Map The Help Map - MVAgusta.net
There you will find people near you that are willing to help with everything

You have a 14 year old Brutale.....they'll run hot, but NOT overheat......1st suspect....air leaks in all
the small hoses and rubber on the intake side...

Under your right undertank cover is your SPU, with a mirror check what color the back is.....
http://www.mvagusta.net/forum/13-bru...di-thread.html

Reduce the torque on the hub pinch bolts to 15lbft/20Nm


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Old 06-30-2018, 09:17 AM
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Hmmm, reading through your post, I am wondering two things: Is your coolant system full, and did you mix Ethylene Glycol with Propylene Glycol?

Now, you state you used "liquid ice" coolant to top off your system...do you mean Liquid Performance Ice water non-glycol racing coolant?

As theknurl (Noel) has stated, Brutales typically do not run hot. Certainly the 750 shouldn't run hot.

What is your definition of hot?

Now, as for the "gurgling" noises: that would lead me to believe you have a leak in your system. This could be at the pressure cap (most likely) or elsewhere. Coolant systems are designed to run at 1-3 bar pressure in order to raise the boiling temperature of the fluid. If that pressure boundary is not intact, say by a poorly sealing pressure cap, then the coolant will boil and the system will get hot.

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Old 06-30-2018, 09:19 AM
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Old 06-30-2018, 10:10 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theknurl View Post
switzerdesigns;

1st you didn't say anything about your fans and at what temperature they come on, or if both do
The temperature sensor is a Jaeger #401076......test it, you need an Ohm meter, heat source and thermometer
Test your thermostat it's simple.....but it MUST open fully

Now, if the tests are OK.....
If you have an early 1st Gen F4 with a 1.6M ECU just get a chip from Adam (merc07)
If you have a later 1st Gen F4 with a 5SM ECU, you'll need it reflashed .....
With real fuel and ignition maps and have the fans come on at 85C/185F

See why you should put the year and model in your signature or description
It helps us help you

[QUOTE=silentservice703;2522161]Hmmm, reading through your post, I am wondering two things: Is your coolant system full, and did you mix Ethylene Glycol with Propylene Glycol?

Now, you state you used "liquid ice" coolant to top off your system...do you mean Liquid Performance Ice water non-glycol racing coolant?

As theknurl (Noel) has stated, Brutales typically do not run hot. Certainly the 750 shouldn't run hot.

What is your definition of hot?


Both mechanics I've spoken to have said it shouldn't get anywhere above 230 F ... so that was their definition of hot. It's gotten as high as 238 when the temp starts to blink furiously. I assumed that means I need to shut it down and let it cool off? The last time that happened, the coolant boiled out of the side of the water pump hose and I lost most of my coolant. I subsequently replaced the clamps on the water pump hose, and Moto Velocita replaced the water pump with an upgraded one from Design Corsa, and added Coolanol. When I got the bike home, (after a 20 minute ride) that's when the gurgling noises I mentioned started. But after replacing the coolanol and adding (I think?) Liquid Ice the bike ran fine, no gurgling, no overheating for two months until the temps hit the 90's here in Brooklyn. Which is where things are at now.

As far as "the parts on order", the only things mentioned by the service manager were gaskets and spark plugs, so it didn't make sense to me that suddenly the parts had to be ordered from MV after I was told that they had everything necessary to do the valve check and full tune up. I asked yesterday and they said the bike isn't taken apart or anything, so I was free to come and pick it up until the parts came in...which makes me think maybe I should do that and start searching for another place to service it in the meantime.

By the way, I've added my model year to the signature, so hopefully I got that part right now?

Again, thanks to everyone for the helpful questions and info. I'm going to look into the ECU as soon as I get the bike back...or can I just go by the VIN?


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