Found this in my oil- what is it?!? Bearing related? - Page 2 - MVAgusta.net
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 05-27-2018, 07:31 AM
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@sleiper!: Hiya Bruce, Chuck Julius here...I was hoping you would chime in. Hope to see you this summer!
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 05-29-2018, 09:58 AM
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I have seen more than one Suzuki Hayabusa with the drive shaft literally ripped out of the crankcases from an overly tightened chain. To say the loads get very big is an understatement, especially when you add in big horsepower.

Still, unusual for an MV do do this. The hub bearings would go first I should think.

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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 05-31-2018, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleiper1 View Post
NOTE: This is Bruce Meyers responding via Susie as my conduit. You are partly correct, but IMO and experience with rebuilding "plenty" of engines (not just MV), the stress load from an over-tight chain far exceeds normal bearing stress or vibration. When the suspension compresses the sprockets get further apart and the load numbers get huge. I am interested to learn if this was the output sprocket bearing or the clutch shaft bearing.
I think Noel is saying that the load from an overtightened chain isnt transferred to the bearing cage but to the bearings.

Id definitely follow his advice on not riding the bike until the fault is rectified.

A sump removal and post mortem on the oil filter would be part of the plan for me.

Joe
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-20-2018, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleiper1 View Post
NOTE: This is Bruce Meyers responding via Susie as my conduit. You are partly correct, but IMO and experience with rebuilding "plenty" of engines (not just MV), the stress load from an over-tight chain far exceeds normal bearing stress or vibration. When the suspension compresses the sprockets get further apart and the load numbers get huge. I am interested to learn if this was the output sprocket bearing or the clutch shaft bearing.
Bruce;
A few mistakes, when a bike is correctly designed at rider sag the countershaft sprocket, swing arm pivot and rear axle
are in a straight line .......which is the MAXIMUM length ......IE where you adjust the chain......because that's where you are most of the time
When the suspension compresses or gets light the distance between the countershaft sprocket and rear axle DECREASES,
NOT INCREASES, reducing the load NOT increasing it

I know a bit about this.......I was chassis designer and fabricator for F.W. Egli for 4 1/2 years
Winner World Endurance Racing Manufacturers Championships '69-'74
Here's my contribution Egli Kawasaki #407 .....the "Freighttrain"
One bike, one motor won the World Championship '72, '73 and '74
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The 3 trophies are for winning Bol 'd Or 3 times
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-20-2018, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theknurl View Post
A few mistakes, when a bike is correctly designed at rider sag the countershaft sprocket, swing arm pivot and rear axle
are in a straight line .......which is the MAXIMUM length ......IE where you adjust the chain......because that's where you are most of the time
When the suspension compresses or gets light the distance between the countershaft sprocket and rear axle DECREASES,
NOT INCREASES, reducing the load NOT increasing it
Noel, Bikes don't necessarily have swing arm points in a straight line when suspension is properly set for rider sag any more. Frequently will have the rear axle below the drive sprocket and pivot line.....bikes have more suspension travel than they did in your heyday.

Also consideration for squat and anti-squat come into play when determining swing arm pivot point relative to axles.

Now, a proper chain adjustment free play measurement takes all this into account. Unfortunately, people are prone to adjusting chains too tight. So when the suspension moves the loads can get very big. Like I said, I've seen GSX1300R transmission cases broken at the drive sprocket from tight chains.

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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-20-2018, 07:48 AM
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Case in point:

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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-20-2018, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esq'z me View Post
Noel, Bikes don't necessarily have swing arm points in a straight line when suspension is properly set for rider sag any more. Frequently will have the rear axle below the drive sprocket and pivot line.....bikes have more suspension travel than they did in your heyday.

Also consideration for squat and anti-squat come into play when determining swing arm pivot point relative to axles.

Now, a proper chain adjustment free play measurement takes all this into account. Unfortunately, people are prone to adjusting chains too tight. So when the suspension moves the loads can get very big. Like I said, I've seen GSX1300R transmission cases broken at the drive sprocket from tight chains.
I never said motorcycle designers knew what they're doing.......
More suspension travel now Ed?
My '72 1/2 BMW R 75 had a stupid 8 inches on the front.......didn't work then either
'73-'74 Suzuki TR-750s had RM-370 MX swing arms on them and threw chains all the time

Race cars run on the same tracks and use less suspension
With lots of suspension travel start having polar moment problems and radical steering angle changes

Anti dive and anti squat doesn't happen with minor shifts in the swing arm pivot point, major shifts cause major problems

The only bikes with real adjustable suspension like the Britten and ELF have anti dive and anti squat
Don't confuse them with POS like Kawasaki's FUBAR disaster

Find Leonard Terry's book, he explains how it works, he was the Chief Engineer at Lotus for years

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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-21-2018, 01:29 AM
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During a recent oil change on my 2000 F4 750 I found this in the oil - any ideas? Am I adjusting my chain incorrectly? Should I be concerned for the safety of Kazu and Hotiro who I have not seen in three days since I took the photo?
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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-21-2018, 05:33 AM
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I used to be fast....now I just dream about it.
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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-21-2018, 05:49 AM
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@The_castle: I would not be concerned because I don't think that's magnetic.

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