Another Cam gear bush failure - MVAgusta.net
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-22-2018, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
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Another Cam gear bush failure

Hi guys. I am new to this Forum so please forgive my Forum etiquette (or lack thereof).


I have a 2012 Brutale 1090R which I purchased from new. I absolutely love riding the thing.
However with 26000 Ks on the clock it has suffered a major engine failure. What first appeared to be a jammed cam chain tensioner has ended up being a damaged crankshaft with 2 teeth broken off the cam drive gear on the actual crank. The teeth were found in the sump along with what seems to be bush/bearing material. The engine was NOT locked up but made one hell of a valve/cam gear clatter, but still idled and ran.
A leak down test has shown no damage to valves. The cam cover and sump are off the engine. There does appear to be some sideways movement on the cam gear that runs off the crank. So I am up for a new crank and cam gear/shaft. Plus one of the intake cam lobes has lost a small amount of hard facing off the nose of the lobe. Repair bill at least $7000 AU. May need to wreck bike.


My question is: Does anyone know why so many cam gears are failing? Bush material, lubrication, load factor?


I have owned about 25 to 30 bikes over the years. From a Suzuki TM 250 to the Mv and everything in between. I am very mechanically adept and maintain all my vehicles to a high level.
I really saved hard and looked forward to getting my MV so to say that I am bitterly disappointed and gutted would be an understatement.


I am hoping that MV Italy might help me out with parts, but I am not holding my breath.


Sorry about the rant, but I think you guys probably know where I'm coming from.


Cheers.


PS. Keep an eye out for crap in your oil changes.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-22-2018, 09:16 PM
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that sux bro I hope you get it figured out.
BTW Look on Ebay for complete Brutale engines

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-22-2018, 09:39 PM
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That's really disappointing to hear. I'm glad I caught mine when I did. I doubt we will get any answers on why it's happening unless someone knows a person in engineering or quality at MV. It could be insufficient lubrication, poor material properties, out of spec ID or OD, etc.

Let us know if the dealer is able to pull any info to guarantee the replacement parts are from a different manufacturing lot. Then again, that won't do you much good if there is an issue with the lubrication.

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-23-2018, 06:00 AM
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Very sorry to hear of your disappointing experience.
I wouldn't classify this as a "common" failure. Yours is only the second one related to cam drive gears I can recall. I would not expect this is a design issue or there would be many many more. Won't know what exactly happened until you get it apart to inspect.

I'll give you an example that is relevant to both your and Smoker's failures (that is, a random mechanical failure on a production machine).... Suzuki SV650, 2017 with just over 1000 miles, began making a rattle sound at 4k rpm and above. Turned out to be wearing front cylinder connecting rod bearing (had not yet failed when discovered). The cause was a machining chip left in the oiling passage of the crank, blocking the oil hole for that rod.

Reported to the factory. The only one reported in the entire world. That crankshaft base part is used in about a million 650 v-twin Suzukis of various models. Sometimes shit happens. Suzuki has now added a second wash check at crank machining as a result of that one failure.

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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-23-2018, 04:38 PM
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Bush Material ,I inspected Robs cam gear down in the depths of his motor ,Mine looked like some brass inner material his looked like aluminum colour ,Totally different material ,No issues with my type on the 1078 but seems to be an issue on 2010 2011 bikes ,I would try Mv direct Good luck .
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-23-2018, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for your valued replies guys.
You are quite right that I still need to get that cam gear out and have a squiz at what has actually occurred, but I reckon I'll find a damaged bush. There was some bearing type material in the sump and it wasn't brass. From what I can gather on this site mine is about the 4th or 5th bike (F4's included) to show excessive wear in this area. (Apologies if I am incorrect on those numbers.)

Thanks for the info on the bush material 'eddypro', because I have been wondering if it is possible to machine up a bush out of suitable material (brass, sintered bronze?) and press it into a new gear, replacing the factory bush. Perhaps even make the bush OD a bit larger to give it more meat and machine gear bore to suit?

I work as mechanical designer in the engineering industry and currently work in a materials engineering institute. I am hoping that some of the brains trust here may be able to suggest a suitable material based on load, shaft material type, rotational speeds etc.

Thanks again for your help guys.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-24-2018, 04:30 AM
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Greg,
Just saw this. I hope you take this to MV. My bearing failed. I was lucky to pick it up during a service because the original bearing was silver metal that was magnetic suggesting iron content. It was stuck to the magnet in the oil plug.

The replacement gear had what appeared to be brass coloured bearing. Definitely different. I suspect yours is the same as my original (my bike is MY12 1090RR).

I didn't pursue the matter because I have done some mods and knew that as soon as they saw that they would blame me so I just brought the parts and fixed it myself.

cheers
Rob
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-24-2018, 05:42 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Rob.
Thanks for the reply. That's just the information I was after.
I am currently going through my local dealer (who has been a great help) to seek some sort of help from MV Italy. He is trying his best to plead my case with MV as I have broken 2 teeth off the crank and need a new one.
Once I know whether MV will assist or not I can decide what to do with the bike. If "yes" then I will strip the engine and sus out the cam gear and it's shaft. If "no" then I may look for another motor or crank (like hen's teeth in Aus) or wreck the bike.
I'm glad you caught your's when you did. I would hate to see anyone else go thru this shit.

Having said that, I am so greatfull that this site exists and that there are people out there willing to help and share their knowledge.
Otherwise I would be scratching around in the dark trying to figure out what the hell is going on with the bike.

Thanks for your help.

Cheers
Greg
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-24-2018, 09:43 AM
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Greg,

I can also confirm that the replacement gear I received appeared to have a different bushing. It was a brass color bushing.

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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-24-2018, 04:13 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Smoker.

Thanks for that confirmation. Maybe MV are replacing that bush with the old style brass coloured ones to solve the problem, which is a good start.
That means I won't have to muck around making up a different bush to press into a new gear. Should be a recall or at least warranty on damaged parts as
a result of component failure. Now if I can get hold of a crank I could be back in business.

On another note, I have a small amount of hard facing coming off the nose of one intake cam lobe. The area is very small and shaped like an arrow, probably about 6mm long and 4mm wide at the widest part of the arrow (back). I can feel where the hard facing is missing with my fingernail. There does not appear to be any pitting on the cam lobe or the corresponding valve bucket. All other lobes are fine.
I remember reading somewhere that MV had recognised this issue and monitored some bikes. They seemed to think that if the area wasn't too big that the cams would continue to be usable.
I have built many standard and high performance car engines over the years and if the cam lobes are damaged, even minor damage, I replace them. However a good quality flat tappet cam for a ford, chevy etc engine can be had for about $350 AU. The MV cams are $2500 AU each. OUCH!
Have you guys had experience with the above in terms of running the cams on MV's with a small of hard facing missing?

Once again thanks for your input.
Cheers Greg
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