2014 Brutale 1090R B5, TPS issues? Help. - MVAgusta.net
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
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2014 Brutale 1090R B5, TPS issues? Help.

Hey, Team.

I am attempting to rectify a problem on a 6000km 2014 Brutale 1090R B5 model for a friend. The bike sat in the dealers for 18 months before my friend purchased it with 0kms on the clock. Original battery still on board and appears to be holding a good charge. It has an HP Corse hydro-formed pipe installed (exhaust butterfly retained) and a vacuum-based Scott Oiler. No other mods. Air filter is clean. Running BP Ultimate 98RON. Fresh engine oil and filters. OEM main battery cables. Sea level here on the Canterbury Plains (New Zealand) and currently mid- winter, ambient temps around 5-10 deg cel. The local dealer has been no help and my bud is now not on speaking terms with them. They have recently said that they are no longer supporting MV product...

The bike is running the OEM Weber Morelli 5SM ECU with the infamously inconsistent single-swipe Weber Morelli three-wire non-linear TPS sensor.

Now, humble apologies if this has been covered elsewhere in the forum, I have had a good search but my computer skills suck, can't find anything that relates.

Problem: Starts fine, idles fine and is able to be held at 2000rpm, 2500rpm, 3000rpm in the throttle when cold. When it warms up it is impossible to hold these revs, the bike goes from 1000rpm idle straight to 4000rpm. Bang. Not so much of a problem when riding under load, but bloody awful/dangerous when coasting to a stop and feathering the throttle. Almost impossible to control.

I have checked the TPS signal voltage and it shows 1.0v with the throttle closed. The supply voltage is steady at 5.0v and the earth side of the TPS is good. The 1.0v closed signal does not vary from cold to hot.

The 1090RR workshop manual shows a voltage vs throttle position graph with 0 degree throttle opening relating to 0.5v signal. I have tried to adjust the TPS physically to lower the voltage to 0.5v but am only able to get to down to 0.75v before the TPS plug runs into the throttle body frame. The bike is able to be held at any rpm between 1k and 4k with 0.75v but once warm, the smallest throttle opening off idle will make the engine cough and stall. It also feels quite 'flat' and unresponsive across the rev range. I don't like it and feel that a manual TPS adjustment is the wrong way to go. Either that or the TPS is faulty. 1v closed relates to around 13% opened butterflies on the graph. Not ideal if this is the case. Fuelling will be, and is, all over the place.

Questions TPS reset. Does the 5SM ECU check the TPS on start up and reset the zero position of the throttle bodies every time? Or is there an optimal voltage from the TPS that the ECU is looking for, with the TPS manually adjusted to generate the correct voltage? Why can't I manually adjust for 0.5v as per the workshop manual graph?

As yet I have not checked the throttle body vacuum sync at idle. Will do this soon.

Assistance appreciated. Gaz.

8^)-
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Last edited by Ghazzah; 07-09-2016 at 04:04 PM.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 04:24 PM
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The TPS is set using the diagnostic software. I don't believe it is possible to physically set it manually.

I presume you have looked for vacuum leaks?
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 10:18 PM
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Jon is right, you have to reset the TPS using the software and not adjust it manually.
Welcome to the forum mate.
It's a B4, being a 4 cylinder, the B5 has to do with engine production so ignore that for now.
Remove the oil dispenser, look for air/vacuum leaks as Jon mentioned.

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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-10-2016, 01:15 PM Thread Starter
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Excellent, thanks for the prompt reposes, chaps.

I will contact a specialist and organise the software reset. Are you talking about the VDST software? Can an end-user purchase the software and appropriate cable? I am a retired computer/network tech so know my way around the electronic/software side of things.

Stupid question, but where would you look for vacuum leaks? Specific hoses or seals?

Once the TPS has been checked/reset and assuming the fault remains, are there any other areas to check/modify to rectify the issue?

Cheers in advance for an assist.

Gazza.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-12-2016, 05:32 AM
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Ghazzah, Yes you can buy the VDST software and use it at home. Several of us have done just that.

As for vacuum leaks, go to Donsy's website: http://www.teamdouble3racing.com/manuals.php and download your manual. Look at the routing for the emissions system hoses. There are quite afew places where that 5/16 hose can develop leaks...make sure the vacuum caps are on the diagnostic connections.

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-13-2016, 10:02 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you, Wise Elders. Appreciated.

I had an ex-MV mechanic come out and ran all of the diagnostic s/w over the bike. Vacuum balance was seriously out, TPS was reading way low, CO adjustment was waaaaay out of whack. No vacuum leaks are evident. Every thing is now back to 'factory' and the bike is running much better. God knows what the dealer had been doing. Feck all, I would guess.

Anyhow, we are looking to fit a PowerCommander V and an AT200 single channel Autotune module. I have used these extensively in the last and am quite experienced with install and tuning. Problem that I have is that the PowerCommander site only gives the PC-V model up to 2012 1090R.

Q: Does anyone have the PC-V product number?

Q: Does anyone have a base-line target AFR trim table that they could flick me?

Thanking you in advance and again, humble apologies if this is covered elsewhere in the forum. Gas just being a lazy lard arse and asking for links.

8^)-

Gazza.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-14-2016, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
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Hey, Team.

Just heard back from PowerCommander themselves and they don't have a tested PC-V for the '14 model. They only list a unit for the '12 Brutal 1090R.

Question. Has anyone fitted a '12 PowerCommander V to a '14 Brutal 1090R or RR? The '12 PCV will work okay as long as the wiring harness has remained unchanged from '12 to '14. Any ideas?

Getting hold of Base Maps will not be a problem as you can simply start with a zero map in the PC-V and load up a Target AFR Trim map into the Autotuner, just ride the bike and the perfect fuelling trims will be applied to the base maps. Get home, save the on-road fuel trims into the PC-V and ride again for more trim adjustments. Repeat step one. It's a brilliant system.

Cheers, Gazza.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-14-2016, 08:25 PM
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Gazza, the 2014 has a different ECU to the 2012 models, they've gone from the Magneti Marelli 5SM to a Eldor unit, so nothing to help you there.

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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-23-2016, 02:37 PM
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remember that I wrote on my F4 turnovers were too high. I should exhaust the full bodis. everything was narmalno after I updated the program ecu.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-24-2016, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Donsy View Post
Gazza, the 2014 has a different ECU to the 2012 models, they've gone from the Magneti Marelli 5SM to a Eldor unit, so nothing to help you there.
I thought the B4 still had the 5SM ? Or are we just behind the times here in AU ...
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