A SERIOUS WARNING -- NEW SPU's suck - MVAgusta.net
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 06:40 PM Thread Starter
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A SERIOUS WARNING -- NEW SPU's suck

Has anyone had the new style SPU fail?
(SERIOUS WARNING AT BOTTOM)

Mine would cause the bike not to run on occasion and now totally quit supplying power to the pum/injectors/coils (fuse 15-power relay) after only 20hrs. The bike was new to me last year with 1500miles.
Sadly I was unaware of the many problems MV's are know to have

Without this forum, many of us would be up the creek!
THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO SHARE THEIR KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE. YOU ARE A TREASURE.

I spent off hrs this past week studying schematics and forum posts on fuel pump, intermittent missing & stall, no run situations and pulled the tank to get access to SPU etc.
Yesterday, six hrs of trouble shooting and verification makes clear the new SPU is bad.

Specifically the coil/energizer on the "power relay" is bad i.e. SPU pins 33 from the run switch has power and 34 (to ecu) goes to ground when the power and run is on.
With Run on, rather than 12-13v across 33/34, it would go near zero if the relay "coil" were good...it's a solid state switch. Yes, measurements of each and across the two were done.
Wiring is good down stream of fuse 15 (pump, coils, injectors). Tested w and w/o fuse 15 in (relay contact load is not the issue).

The elec. parts don't carry warranty unless a dealer puts it in yet they don't have anything to check an ecu or spu with anything other than a DMM.
I haven't located an MV dealer with a test bed to check SPU's of ECU so you can'e be sure what they give you is good.

Since I first plugged the "new" spu in, the bike would occasionally not start. The map was being adjusted so I was thinking maybe it was a dirty connector/connection. I'd pull the ecu plug, air sensor connector, and tank/pump connectors, clean contacts, reinstall and the thing would run.

WITH ALL THOSE EXPERIENCING INTERMITTENT ISSUES THAT MAGICALLY RESOLVE AFTER COOL DOWN OR REINSPECTING CONNECTORS, I'M GUESSING THE SOLID STATE RELAYS, SPECIFICALLY THE "POWER RELAY) IN THE SPU MAY BE THE ISSUE.
MINE HAS REPLICATED THE STALLING, MISSING, ETC. MANY PEOPLE REPORT.

I HATED IT SINCE I NEVER KNEW WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS.
Now I believe it's been the new SPU since the day I installed it.

I went to driving school at the track, ready to run the weekend. Fired up before going but got to track and barely made one lap. It would miss, stop and shutter like starving fuel. Pulling apart, checked pump, reassembled, no pump prime. I lost hundreds in track fees since my MV did and still will not run.

So I'll be out over $1000 for two new SPU's that have no warranty since I'm not willing to pay another $300 to $500 to tell/teach a tech what the problem is, have him pull the bike apart, plug in an SPU, and put the bike together.
Don't get me wrong, there are some outstanding techs out there.

A new SPU every 20 hrs or so? Complete insanity.

Over the past year, except for pulling the harness completely apart, I've checked the operation of all the sensors, switches, and done pin out verification on the ECU and SPU to verify no other issues are apparent that would cause the power relay energize circuit to blow the relay.

--------
Has anyone had the bike fail to run or quit with the new style SPU?

Does anyone stateside fix the new spu's?

Sice they won't warranty mine, there was nothing to lose so I opened it. It'll take me while to trace and isolate all the components but I think the surface mount solid state relays could be replaced once it's mapped out.

----SERIOUS WARNING- DON'T GET WATER NEAR THE NEW SPU'S----

I've attached images of the inside of the new spu (8A00A9300).

They are not water proof or even water resistant in my book. Though the is a lip on the back cover, there is no gasket or seal. Better yet, look at the RTV around the fuse area. Though a decent bead is along the bottom, they missed the other three sides entirely. There's even a white line around the fuse area denoting where the RTV needs to be. RU kidding?
Indeed the white RTV in the pictures is the only sealant on the entire assembly.

Yes, the board and components are covered in a moisture and tamper resistant coating, the edges of the board are not. EASY TO BELIEVE HUMIDITY CAN WREAK HAVOCK, especially in humid areas.

Even better, this one has at least one hair laying across circuit paths, embedded in the coating. Apparently resistance and capacitance don't affect electronics.

Add to that; at least 5 solder pads have half a dozen indents from DVM test probes or such (through the coating). You'd think test/probe pads would have been added for QA/QC regimes if point to point measurements are a part of normal procedure (was mine a reject/rework).


Thanks
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07 Brutale

Last edited by SlowRide; 05-22-2016 at 06:44 PM.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-23-2016, 01:57 AM
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-23-2016, 02:21 AM
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where did the spu`s come from ?
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-23-2016, 06:31 AM
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Looks like you are at a point where you could fix it yourself. Several good component suppliers on the web. I bought a surface mount tantalum cap to repair the main board on one of my TVs on line....for $1.50. New boards were several hundred dollars.

My SPU has been trouble free and plenty wet on several occasions. Your's obviously had defective sealing.

There is a company in Europe that offers repair service. I posted the link a short while ago.

I hope you can get it fixed. Good luck.

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-28-2016, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
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SPU was bought from http://moto-forza.com/

They've always been great folks to deal with!
Sadly I have yet to find any dealer who has a benchtop test setup to check SPU's or ECU's.
It's all cash and carry...

07 Brutale
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-28-2016, 07:23 PM
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Such a helpful post.

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-28-2016, 08:43 PM Thread Starter
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Your right.
I plan to trace and diagram which relay is which, and repair it after contacting MV and supplying macro shots of the coating penetrations on solder pads.

Glad to know yours has survived the wet. The case design and the side covers on the bikes do a good job of preventing most falling water from entering the SPU.

A few minutes & a couple grams of properly placed RTV assures moisture never becomes an issue.

BTW, Thanks for the responses!
I should have cooled off a bit longer before writing the post.

The plan was to be more effective in conveying the problem(s) found and how to resolve them.

...It's good to learn from your mistakes. It's cheaper to learn from those of others.

07 Brutale
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-28-2016, 08:50 PM
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Thanks for that Slowride, did you contact MotoForza about a warranty replacement or was that too late ?

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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-30-2016, 09:22 PM Thread Starter
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Intermittent pump or running issues: quick test

I appreciate the nod Donsy!

MotoForza folks were/are great and the rep tried to warranty it. It's just been too long even though there are only 20 or 24 hrs on it.
I'll wait till the new SPU arrives before talking to MV. It'll be interesting just to see how the sealing looks with the fuse cover off.

I would have tried to warranty the SPU sooner had I known it was the issue.
Since last summer/fall, and with the forum and member's help, I've spent endless hrs trying to track down the occasional stalls, and failures to start.
I never considered the new SPU could be an issue and never thought about monitoring the power relay status.

The issue would magically come and go... And as we all know intermittent issues can be problematic.
Often shops and even individuals don't have the time OR LUCK to find the issue so parts/money are thrown at it.
I don't have the money so.... months and months I kept looking. It only came to light after a non recoverable relay failure.
I've had better LUCK however at least I've learned a bunch.

All the best be yours

07 Brutale
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-30-2016, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
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Intermittent issues.... quick tests

Power Relay Quick Check
Even with the bike together, now I understand how to check it's function easily with a DVM/DMM attached to fuse 15. (A small stranded wire round the fuse spade and plug it in, quick and works well if your probe is slightly large).
If you hear the pump running, Skip this test. The pwr relay is functioning at the moment. .
However if pump is running and intermittent stalls are occuring, move to monitor while riding.

Key & run on, there should be pwr on fuse 15
If not, then the pwr relay is either not being energized or is bad.
Remember this supplies power to the injectors, fuel pump, and the coils!
Both coils and injectors can have intermittent failure and are outside the diagnostic scope of this post.

Power Relay; monitor while riding
Probably the easiest way to verify operation of the power relay while riding, one of those cheapo 12v light up testers, a 12 bulb, or even an LED could be wired up.
Light goes out, power relay is dropping out which requires deeper investigation.
Additional Relay monitoring
LATCH RELAY- monitor with wired light or meter to fuse 9
GENERAL RELAY- wire light/meter to fuse 11

Any further intermittent issues and you can be sure I'll be making a little 3 light LED display to monitor those 3 relays. Three tiny wires on a ribbon cable coming out under the little fuse box cover are a minor & temp. inconvenience.
Cheap, easy, and can save many hrs and dollars, most will notice a dash light going out while driving anything short of a GP.
I was advised the Black SPU is used for the gen 1 and through the 1090 models so it might provide benefit for many. I have not checked all those schematics, please check them verify layout before jumping in.


Roadside test /temp fix

It's also possible to do another pwr relay test and bypass, both to diagnose in the garage and to use as a roadside bandaid to get you home or to the shop.
NOTE- Most shops use an external relay to test/bypass the Power Relay (and others). To my knowledge, this direct wire method is not MV approved.
Your schematic will verify the only things downstream are the fuel pump, coils and injectors i.e. they will behave exactly as if the pwr relay is supplying the pwr.

Pull fuse 15 and, using an inline fused jumper, run bat + to bottom fuse socket (vs doing a full on relay substitution like I did with the bike apart-this way is best but not possible roadside).
That will provide power to the inj/coils/pump.
The relay is normally energized when the run switch is turned on. I strongly advise key and run are on before making the final connection (bat + I'd think) to prevent any potential issues.

I don't know the inside of the ecu. Some circuits have a delicate balance. As such, normally non related things can produce undesired effects.
That's the reason for pulling the fuse as well. It makes sure that, with certain relay failure modes, the pwr isn't fed through that relay to the general relay, latch relay, etc, and it keeps the run switch operational.

Magnetti Marelli
If anyone has a Magnetti Marelli contact that might (with an NDA in place) share some ecu wisdom, PLEASE contact me.
I'll sign and agree to any NDA it takes to be able to learn some of the ECU structure and dynamics to get my bike to be reliable.
We love the bikes or we wouldn't be here.

PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU FIND OTHER MEANS OF EXTERNAL TESTING THE INTERNAL CIRCUITS OF THE SPU OR ECU, ...ESPECIALLY FOR INTERMITTENT ISSUE TRACING.
HERE'S THE FORUM LIST FOR "INTERMITTENT" SEARCH;
http://www.mvagusta.net/forum/search...4&pp=25&page=3

07 Brutale
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