Why no change in MV styling? Lack of $$$ or is it perfect? - MVAgusta.net
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2006, 02:22 PM Thread Starter
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Why no change in MV styling? Lack of $$$ or is it perfect?

There was a thread on another forum about the "Sexiest sportbike ever made" I of course added my $.02 about the MV and here's one response...

Me: Sorry guys, I'm biased but theres a reason they haven't changed the styling of the MV....why mess with perfection?

Him: I don't think "perfection" is the reason they haven't messed with it. I think it has a little more to do with no free capital, income to debt not strong, always going bankrupt, new holding company every fiscal year etc.....

But what do I know?

Me: Obviously you didn't take into account the Ducati 916 996 series, they kept the styling around a long while before they changed it and that body style is still on the top of people's list....the same designer designed the MV F4 series...Now are you gonna tell me Ducati had financial troubles too?

Him: Actually yes, I WILL tell you Ducati has had, and is having, financial troubles. And it is a fact that Ducati held out on the redesign of the 999 due to finances. Do your homework.

Me: My point is that manufacturers of high end vehicles (bikes and cars) generally don't change the styling of their models often to keep the value up. In some cases it works (like with bikes and some exotic cars) and in some cases it doesn't. Now I'm patiently waiting for your analysis of the financial statements of all these other vehicle manufacturers as well to explain why they don't change the models as often, oh well..... did we forget that I said I was "biased" in my first thread? In the end its all a matter of opinion, I just stated mine. No hard feelings or anything by the way....its nice to have actual ideas being tossed around or argued in this place for once.

Him: No harm no foul Mv 2 NV. I was hoping you wouldn't take this personally lol. It's just people expressing thoughts. I actually think the MV is a hot ride myself.... Congrats on having one!

The MIC data that I get every month for my reports doesn't even break down Ducati, Triumph or other off-marqee machines because their total sales are so small compared to Japanese product. It's good to hit a home run on styling (like MV did) but when you compare specs, the exotics fall off after a model year because they can't afford the development like the Japanese can. So they evolve rather than explode with a new model. They almost have no choice but to stay with styling. Take Ducati, the largest of the non-Japanese in sportbikes. They posted a $41.5 million dollar LOSS last fiscal year compared to 2004. The 999 platform is not setting the world on fire in terms of performance or styling but the company can't afford a redesign. You were dead-on with you comment of holding value though: Ducati sends out a training manual to all of their dealers that states the reason they go with solid colors and limited styling changes is so as to not devalue the previous year bikes. It would be nice if the Japanese would take a hint from that but then no one would buy new and I would be out of a job.

I hope I didn't offend ya whan I posted about MV and fiscals (how did we get here anyways???), but type can be misleading in reference to tone. It's a beautiful bike. Period.


Is this the reason they don't change model styling (besides special edition colors) as often as Japanese Manufacturers?
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2006, 02:52 PM
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actually, you can go bust on "HIM" for not doing his homework. that guy is a frigging asshole for suggesting that you didn't do your 'homework'.

superbikeplanet.com has a VERY recent interview with the CEO of Ducati, Federico Minoli, where he admitted that Ducati "declared the death of the 998 TOO EARLY". the reason why ducati held out on the design of the 998 was that it WAS STILL SELLING WELL.

why would Ducati make such an admission. well, the 999 is NOT a popular bike. sales for that thing are way down. the 998 was a popular bike, and it probably had a few more years in it. hell, just look at the monster. or, the porsche 911 for that matter!

personally, i think ducati has some rought times ahead. their styling is not doing it. the only bike i like is the monster. the rest look like crap (IMHO).

mv, on the other hand, has AWESOME styling. and i belive that the future for MV is very bright. my only concern is if they are manufacturing these wonderful machines profitably. just looking at the hardware, it's hard for me to see how that can be done. every single component on the bike is top-shelf. right down to the simplest electrical connector and wire harness strap! as an owner, it's awesome. but as an engineer, i have to wonder how you can pull it off.

Last edited by altoon; 03-23-2006 at 03:28 PM.
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2006, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by altoon
personally, i think ducati has some rought times ahead. their styling is not doing it.
mv, on the other hand, has AWESOME styling. and i belive that the future for MV is very bright. my only concern is if they manufacturing these wonderful machines profitably. just looking at the hardware, it's hard for me to see how that can be done. every single component on the bike is top-shelf. right down to the simplest electrical connector and wire harness strap! as an owner, it's awesome. but as an engineer, i have to wonder how you can pull it off.
I couldnt have said it better myself.
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2006, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
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See? I knew I was right...Our bikes ARE perfect!
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2006, 04:11 PM
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Tamburini has stated he is a fan of slow evolution rather than glitz and glamour revolution. Come up with a masterstroke and run with it.

Lack of capitol does not explain lack of a 'revolutionary' new model, I guess of the F4. Let's look at their financial positions relative to model developments. Just following their worst financial position with the failed Piaggio merger they released the Brutale 750. During Proton's failing domestic market support the released the 1000. They updated to the 1000's new arrangement; EBS, Tamburini's TSS. Just prior to the selloff they upgraded the ECU and electrics coming up with the new GP ECU bikes.

We are looking at MV's philosophy bearing fruit.

There is some complaint about all the 'specials' but truth be told they are selling. Maybe the worst example of this was the SPR, priced above the 1000 and released only months before the latter, being 'only' a 750.

Comparing current post-TPG Ducati with they heydey of the 998 superbikes is not apples to apples IMO. They were successful then and were special. I think we can all agree that the 'update' to Ducati's business post 999 was not as marked as the update in the design of their superbikes

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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2006, 04:56 PM
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the other aspect of a ducati - mv comparison is racing.

ducati is in motogp, wsbk, and ama superbike. motogp is the biggest drain on the bottom line. it's a HUGE drain on capital. if ducati cut their motogp support, they would have had a much better fiscal result.

mv, on the other hand, does not have a factory racing effort. as a big race fan, i know i want to see mv in there mixing it up, but they should only do it if it does NOT compromise selling bikes. castiglioni has stated that he want's to see mv in wsbk in 2007. they should ONLY do that if the company is making money.

you race to sell bikes, you don't sell bikes to race. mv needs to be making money selling motorcycles, before it even makes a hint at going racing.

alex
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2006, 06:34 PM
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James is spot-on why they won't change the design anytime soon. Tamburini was not happy with the Ducati 999 change from the 916 design he again thought just as james said that it should have been improved upon. He was right, it now has hit Ducati's pocket books!

Ducati had insisted that the change was due in part because they wanted to continue to dominate world superbike and the 916, 996, 998 was becoming incresingly hard for the riders to handle and keep up with the newer four strokes.

I also remember reading this was just about the time they were developing the MotoGP bike and the cost of producing the 916 was greater than the 999. They were quite simply cutting dollars to put towards the MotoGP bike development. Or they were looking for somthing more economical to build either way it hurt them. It has got to be really hard to follow up a design like the 916.

Last edited by rramseyr; 03-23-2006 at 06:46 PM.
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2006, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by altoon

you race to sell bikes, you don't sell bikes to race. mv needs to be making money selling motorcycles, before it even makes a hint at going racing.

alex
Many, esp. Italian companies look at this in the reverse, and I'm not sure I dissagree.
Ferrari, for example, has always considered selling cars a necessary evil to fund racing. It was not long ago that Ducati had the same philosophy; but this is something that keeps vehicles like this 'exclusive'.
It is certainly the other way around for American and Japanese companies, where racing is considered no more than a powerful marketing tool (take NASCAR for example).
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2006, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Many, esp. Italian companies look at this in the reverse, and I'm not sure I dissagree.
Just look @ the Japanese, they sell well and race well. the fact of life is that you gotta have fun, gotta work, and also gotta eat too.

Imagine if one of the Japanese company will hire Tamburini (or buy out MV)and let him have the money, the total control and freedom to design a exclusive line of exotic super sportsbikes, and perhaps even supervise their overall designs? that would be something, no? just a fantasy.

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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2006, 09:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odonata
Just look @ the Japanese, they sell well and race well. the fact of life is that you gotta have fun, gotta work, and also gotta eat too.

Imagine if one of the Japanese company will hire Tamburini (or buy out MV)and let him have the money, the total control and freedom to design a exclusive line of exotic super sportsbikes, and perhaps even supervise their overall designs? that would be something, no? just a fantasy.
But maybe this would undermind the essence of what makes MV's so special...
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