Ticket for "overtaking / passing while unsafe" - MVAgusta.net
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-11-2007, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DoctorMV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: South Coast, NSW, Australia
Posts: 301
Angry Ticket for "overtaking / passing while unsafe"

Hi guys

on the weekend I made a mistake - i travelled at the speed limit and did not pass a vehicle because of double lines....

so when did legally pull out to pass (on my F41000R), two cops in car coming the other way (ie towards me) decided to give me a ticket.

The fact that the cop who booked me was the same one who pulled up and "officially cautioned" about 15 Ducati Club members (including me) a couple of months ago may have had something to do with it I guess.... ;-)

What I am interested in finding out, is whether anyone has had experience in putting together evidence about what sort of separation distance (between two oncoming vehicles doing 100-110 kmh is needed for a bike like a 1000 MV to safely pass (without going huge amounts over the speed limit of 100 kmh). Anyone know of any court cases with such expert evidence put forward (in any country)??

I'm wondering if i should go to court and argue the point. I had plenty of room and there was never any danger, so I am a bit annoyed at being "done" for this. Other times, fair enough. But please, actually catch me in the act, don't frame me!!! maybe the fact thatthe cops were speeding was a factor, but I couldn't argue that...

cheers

Doc

DocMV

- MV Agusta Brutale RR1090
- Ducati Diavel Carbon Red
- Ducati Monster 659



The only thing better than a fast Italian motorcycle is several fast italian motorcycles.

Last edited by DoctorMV; 02-11-2007 at 07:59 PM.
DoctorMV is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-11-2007, 08:25 PM
CAG
Senior Member
 
CAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Home. In Dixie.
Posts: 13,695
Send a message via Skype™ to CAG
From a law enforcement perspective here in the US.

1) Appeal the charge. Don't pay the ticket, go to court. The officer will have to show up and state his case you will be allowed to offer your defense. If he does not show up, you automatically win (most of the time).

2) If you weren't passing in a no passing zone, and not exceeding the speed limit you did nothing wrong. If you decide to go to court, go with pictures of the area you were in when you passed the car.

3) If you do go to court and need to have questions prepared for the officer to answer to establish (demolish) his credability, PM me.

CAG
CAG is offline  
post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-11-2007, 08:50 PM
New Member
 
motorfiveo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: North Texas
Posts: 53
In Tx and alot of states, you cannot overtake within 1000ft of another approaching vehicle.
Seems like Aus would have a specific distance as well. If not, it would be up to the officer to give testimony as to why it was unsafe.

You gotta be crazy, gotta have a real need....
motorfiveo is offline  
post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-11-2007, 08:53 PM
Senior Member
 
MVASyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 1,049
Send a message via AIM to MVASyd
Doctor MV, I believe this may be worth fighting for. It really is getting out of hand down here with the police and their attitude. Give this guy a ring, Mark Stenberg at Lawstop, on 02 9477 1199. He is a solictor who is rider (writes for Rapid) and specialises in bikes, so he may be able to advise.He helped my son last year.
Good luck.

MVA Sydney
MVASyd is offline  
post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-11-2007, 09:37 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorMV
Hi guys

on the weekend I made a mistake - i travelled at the speed limit and did not pass a vehicle because of double lines....

so when did legally pull out to pass (on my F41000R), two cops in car coming the other way (ie towards me) decided to give me a ticket.

The fact that the cop who booked me was the same one who pulled up and "officially cautioned" about 15 Ducati Club members (including me) a couple of months ago may have had something to do with it I guess.... ;-)

What I am interested in finding out, is whether anyone has had experience in putting together evidence about what sort of separation distance (between two oncoming vehicles doing 100-110 kmh is needed for a bike like a 1000 MV to safely pass (without going huge amounts over the speed limit of 100 kmh). Anyone know of any court cases with such expert evidence put forward (in any country)??

I'm wondering if i should go to court and argue the point. I had plenty of room and there was never any danger, so I am a bit annoyed at being "done" for this. Other times, fair enough. But please, actually catch me in the act, don't frame me!!! maybe the fact that the cops were speeding was a factor, but I couldn't argue that...

cheers

Doc

A coupe for questions for you Doc.

Did you get nicked anywhere near Goulbourn?
Did you pass the cars on your back wheel?
Was it a NSW Highway car that booked you & did they flash the rollers at you during your overtake maneuver?

A few points of thought.
Goulbourn HWY cops are the worst & have put every other cop tp shame for their behavior & attitude. The senior traffic Sargent who drive HWY001 is feral & has taken it as his personal crusade to teach everyone a lesson.
back wheel work, while I trust that you are an honest safe(ish) rider like the rest of use, will get their attention
Here's the last rub. If you where passed by a HWY car that had it rollers running as they passed you, your bike & pass maneuver will be on digital tape. (all NSW hwy cars are now fit with front & rear camera's that automatically activate with the rollers) If it was a NSW HWY car then any possible tape recording could work for or against you.

As for the cops speeding ... unless they do you for exceed speed (Radar/Lidar) you can't actually request their transit speed. Note: if you get pulled over for speeding by a mobile speed camera (on a car that is moving) tell the cop that you want to view your recorded speed & his recorded transit speed; If they are speeding at the time of the offence, you can use that information in court to get you off.
DaDukeofOz is offline  
post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-11-2007, 11:15 PM
Senior Member
 
minime's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 2,156
so you did an overtaking manoeuvre correctly with the centre lines nearest to you broken?
Was the road ahead clear? If the road has some sort of crest, you can say that the road was clear when you were doing the overtaking manoeuvre and the other car appear after you finish the move.

The RTA website does not specifically state what the definition of clear is? Does that mean that there should be zero cars ahead or should there be enough distance to do an overtaking move safely?

Were you clocked for breaking the speed limit?

I thought all cop cars have front and rear cameras can they use that against you or you can use the camera against them.

You can use the argument that frontal area of a bike is only a fraction of a car and the time you were on the wrong side of the road should be much shorter than a car.

Good luck man.

Slow is smooth and smooth is fast!!
minime is offline  
post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-11-2007, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DoctorMV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: South Coast, NSW, Australia
Posts: 301
Angry

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaDukeofOz

Was it a NSW Highway car that booked you & did they flash the rollers at you during your overtake maneuver?

Here's the last rub. If you where passed by a HWY car that had it rollers running as they passed you, your bike & pass maneuver will be on digital tape. (all NSW hwy cars are now fit with front & rear camera's that automatically activate with the rollers) If it was a NSW HWY car then any possible tape recording could work for or against you.

.
DaDukeofOz

I never lift the front wheel, I am far too conservative for that....

I don't think they are Goulburn cops, but the group that do Canberra to Cooma & Snowy Mtns, and Queanbeyan to the south coast. They have one guy in a lime green hwy patrol who is mad - almost had a head on with a Ducati by pulling into the oncoming lane to flash him when another car was coming up from behind!!!

It was actually on the Kings Hwy between Bungendore and Queanbeyan. They did not flash their rollers. Which is why i thought nothing of it. I was at least a 150 metres from them when they appeared around the bend (just as I was pulling out). I was still 50 metres distance between us when I pulled over into the left lane. They claimed they had to brake because of me, which I doubt. I never gave any thought that they'd say i more or less cut them off - I was a bit worried about speeding, but when i checked my speed I was not going that fast. My mate who was 2 cars behind me said I definitely was not gunning her as I passed (unusually!!).

They followed me for about 2 km with their red/blue lights on (no siren) according to my mate before I noticed them. I had checked at first and didn't see them turn around. But after seeing them coming towards me I was travelling at the speed limit the whole time. I reckon they wanted to get me for speeding but couldn't, so made this crap up. I think that wearing my Ducati jacket set them off, as they have it in for the local Ducati Club (i'm vice president).

I had already emailed the lawyer you suggested. I will talk with him and see what to do.

Thanks for your advice.

cheers

Doc

DocMV

- MV Agusta Brutale RR1090
- Ducati Diavel Carbon Red
- Ducati Monster 659



The only thing better than a fast Italian motorcycle is several fast italian motorcycles.

Last edited by DoctorMV; 02-11-2007 at 11:39 PM.
DoctorMV is offline  
post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-11-2007, 11:35 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DoctorMV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: South Coast, NSW, Australia
Posts: 301
Angry

Quote:
Originally Posted by minime
so you did an overtaking manoeuvre correctly with the centre lines nearest to you broken?
Was the road ahead clear? If the road has some sort of crest, you can say that the road was clear when you were doing the overtaking manoeuvre and the other car appear after you finish the move.

...or should there be enough distance to do an overtaking move safely?

Were you clocked for breaking the speed limit?

You can use the argument that frontal area of a bike is only a fraction of a car and the time you were on the wrong side of the road should be much shorter than a car.

Good luck man.
I had been sitting behind a car for 4 km of double lines (silly, i know) and passed at the first legal opportunity (single boken lines). When I pulled out there were not cars on either side of the road (except the one I was passing). The cop car came around the bend. It was totally safe. I have cut it closer with cops in the past!!!


I was not clocked or booked for exceeding the speed limit. The cop's attitude was like it was a big joke...


They cautioned me that they were making an audio and visual record of anything I said. When they asked me if i knew why I had been pulled up, I said " no I don't", and when he said I had overtaken unsafely, I said I did not think I had and there was plenty of room. So I made no admissions.


Doc

DocMV

- MV Agusta Brutale RR1090
- Ducati Diavel Carbon Red
- Ducati Monster 659



The only thing better than a fast Italian motorcycle is several fast italian motorcycles.

Last edited by DoctorMV; 02-11-2007 at 11:38 PM.
DoctorMV is offline  
post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-11-2007, 11:52 PM
Senior Member
 
minime's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 2,156
Use their on board video camera to your advantage to prove that your were doing the overtaking safely.

Slow is smooth and smooth is fast!!
minime is offline  
post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-12-2007, 12:07 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: South Australia
Posts: 2,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorMV
DaDukeofOz

I reckon they wanted to get me for speeding but couldn't, so made this crap up. I think that wearing my Ducati jacket set them off, as they have it in for the local Ducati Club (i'm vice president).

Doc
Sounds about right...Best of luck.
Rockethouse is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to use all of the features of the MVAgusta.net site, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome