Question on CF strutural integrity......... - MVAgusta.net
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-29-2011, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
TreeMV #2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 530
Question on CF strutural integrity.........

I already understand that pre preg is a better choice if you are going to do structural work, but does that mean you cannot do wet lay for structural parts??
Does anyone know of any type of structural CF that was done with wet lay??

Tree
TreeMV #2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-29-2011, 07:25 PM
Senior Member
 
Snohman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Land Down Under
Posts: 1,114
Westgate Bridge in melbourne.
wait, do you mean bike components?

Last edited by Snohman; 09-29-2011 at 07:29 PM.
Snohman is offline  
post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-29-2011, 11:45 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 819
Its not that simple. Matter of fact its much more involved and complex than one might think. There are many methods of wet laying carbon. One will need to know what kind of structure the part(s) are being made for, as well as the actual design of the part. If its a critical part then its a good idea to search out carbon companies that could better guide you on the carbon you are looking to make.


Couple examples of wet lay carbon parts that are structural parts......sailing masts and those long and low row boats you see in the olympics.
varium is offline  
post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-30-2011, 09:12 AM
Senior Member
 
number2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Charleston South Carolina
Posts: 5,585
Quote:
Originally Posted by varium View Post
Its not that simple. Matter of fact its much more involved and complex than one might think. There are many methods of wet laying carbon. One will need to know what kind of structure the part(s) are being made for, as well as the actual design of the part. If its a critical part then its a good idea to search out carbon companies that could better guide you on the carbon you are looking to make.


Couple examples of wet lay carbon parts that are structural parts......sailing masts and those long and low row boats you see in the olympics.
Not to mention frames on Ducati MotoGP bikes
number2 is online now  
post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-30-2011, 10:35 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 819
Pretty sure its a prepreg lay up on frames, swingers, and wheels.
varium is offline  
post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-30-2011, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
TreeMV #2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 530
So possibly bad idea for say seat assembly unit?
Would pre-peg/autoclave be the only option, or would wet-lay safely work done properly??
TreeMV #2 is offline  
post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-30-2011, 05:08 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 819
Oh yeah if done properly a wet lay with some vacuum bagging should be fine. If you have autoclave access that would be even better cause bagging can only get you so much pressure.
Keep in mind there are numerous methods for wet lay and it would be good practice to make sure one is intimately familiar with all of them for their advantages and disadvantages. Depending on what one has to work with some methods may work better than others.
If you are going to be making a mold of the sub frame you want its not much more work to make a plug for it. If going that far may as well go with prepreg if you have use of an autoclave. There is tooooooooons of stuff that can be pulled up quickly through google to help you figure outt he finer points. Think there are some composite specific forums that would be a good place to start with. Who knows you may even find someone in your area willing to do such a project for or with you. At the very least you'll have access to 100's of years of knowledge through the web sites which can't be found on here or many(if any) of your typical bike and/or car forums.
varium is offline  
post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-01-2011, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
TreeMV #2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 530
Varium
Thanks for the good words
Winter project enroute
dont look for the short path gents, this one is gonna take a while
I am looking a something special for the 2014 GP in Texas
Babygirl is gonna have to take a side seat to her new sister :-)
let the cash register ringing.... begin!

Tree
TreeMV #2 is offline  
post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-01-2011, 06:48 PM
Established Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeMV #2 View Post
I already understand that pre preg is a better choice if you are going to do structural work, but does that mean you cannot do wet lay for structural parts??
Does anyone know of any type of structural CF that was done with wet lay??
Basically as you go through the processes from pre-preg and autoclave to wet lay and vacuum bag to straight wet lay you get cheaper and also loose an element of quality control, so to make-up for this more resin is used and the parts get heavier.

The rear bodywork on my Bimota SB6 is a self supporting carbon fibre element and since this bike originates from 1993, I'd bet the bodywork is not a pre-preg autoclave structure. It is possible the bodywork was vacuum bagged, however, most likely it is just a wet-laid structure - this rear bodywork is thick, heavy and plenty strong enough.

Andrew...
andrew is offline  
post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-01-2011, 08:56 PM
Senior Member
 
timpants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,077
You want to build something like this guy does for the 1098? http://durbahn.de/Web%201098.htm

It's very possible. With laminates, layup is everything. Depending on the composite technology you can get your hands on, you could do the whole thing with a wet layup and no vacuum bagging. Don't expect too much weight savings if you do that thought. You'll likely need your layup to be thick to compensate for porosity (tiny air bubbles) weakening your overall strength. Your ability to build the layup and funds will likely be the limiting factors in your project.

Practice makes perfect. Have you ever worked with composite materials before?
timpants is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to use all of the features of the MVAgusta.net site, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome