Cornering Question - Basic counsteering vs. Advance steering. - MVAgusta.net
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post #1 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-20-2006, 02:09 PM Thread Starter
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Cornering Question - Basic counsteering vs. Advance steering.

I'm familiar with counter steering and body steering (well, at least I think I am) but notice something in my riding. My commute is through residential canyons with a speed limit of mostly 30mph and there are a few 10 mph decreasing radius turns. I usually cruise around 40mph.

The most effective and comfortable steering method for me is to simple push on the handle bars BUT keeping my body upright (body's at a 90 degree angle to the ground). This goes back to the MSF safety class I took years ago.

However, if I push the handle bars, add some weight to the pegs, and give some body lean, the input seems way too much and I end up throwing off my line and my cornering speed is much lower than the simple push on the handle bars. The bikes doesn't seem to respond to well to this style on those roads.

If I remain at a 90 degree angel and push the bars, I'm actually working against the bike right? Also, this is street riding so I'm not trying to get a knee down or anything and I'm not looking to go double the speed limit on a residential canyon. I'm just a little confused on what works for me and why it works.
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post #2 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-20-2006, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
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Oh, on bikes like the R1, I found body steering work better than the simple push on the handlebars. But on the 999 and MV, pushing the bars works better or feels more comfortable to me than body steering. Could it be because the MV/999 places more weight on the handle bars which makes handle bar inputs more effective?

Also, this gives you an idea of the streets I'm riding on:


slightly distorted because of the windscreen



Last edited by Allan Gibbs; 10-20-2006 at 02:15 PM.
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post #3 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-20-2006, 03:22 PM
 
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Hmm. If you want long, convoluted discussion and argument, that you might be able to cherry pick, I'd suggest you post this question in the Survival Skills forum of http://www.visordown.com

There are a number of experienced riders and instructors in this sector of the forum who can probably help.... a lot.

I've had lessons with 3 of the resident instructors and they love questions like this to get their teeth into, so if you get no joy here, I recommend you try there.
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post #4 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-20-2006, 03:26 PM
Smile

I'll leave the technical answer to your question to others Allan, but I find the F4 seems to think itself around the bends, rider input is quite minimal IMO. The only other road bikes that have this ability that I have owned in over 30 years of riding now are the Ducati 916 family and fuel in the frame Buells. I have a few friends who are Ducati enthusiasts and those who have riden my F4's have said they think the Agusta is just as good if not better than their own bikes but that they prefer the big Twins motor, which is fair comment in my eyes.


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Keep one wheel down!

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If you can't fix it with a hammer you've got an electrical problem!


No MV's in the garage anymore
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but I pop in here from time to time
. Come to think of it I don't have a garage since the old one burnt down!
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But...…..a new one is currently rising from the ashes......watch this space!
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post #5 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-20-2006, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan Gibbs
However, if I push the handle bars, add some weight to the pegs, and give some body lean, the input seems way too much
Decrease input or increase speed.
We don't yet have the MV Agusta "sfidante di fisica" available from Corse

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post #6 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-20-2006, 04:16 PM
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i think the answer to these questions are hard to come by. there are "techniques" that one could consider right/wrong, but every rider has their own way as to which feels most comfortable. i quickly found that the faster the MV is going the better it handles, rides, feels, etc. i have yet to find cornering a chore, but whenever i lean on the tank, almost in full tuck, i feel the most in tune with the bike. it's then that i am reminded that it is a race machine and not a goldwing. i think there are natural, intuitive ways to do alot of things. start there and improve upon...assuming you are not a total dork on a bike.
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post #7 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-20-2006, 04:21 PM
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IMHO, the F4 responds great to bar inputs. It really wants you to counter-steer it. At the track, if I'm looking for a bit more lean angle I just push on the bar on the inside.

On an aside, I've found the F4 does really well with trail braking. At Fontana this weekend, I was on the binders DEEP into the corners, especially turn 12, a sharp right-hander after a straight. I've read that some guys think the F4 isn't a good trail braking bike. That hasn't been my experience at all. I can just hold onto those brakes way into the corner. Even past the apex if I'm sloppy! The bike will stay on the line, not try to stand up or understeer.

Alex
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post #8 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-20-2006, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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Can someone refresh my memory. In the MSF class, did they say when making a slow turn like 5-10 mph (parking lot), you countersteer the bike while remaining upright. Does the body act as a counter balance?
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post #9 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-20-2006, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by altoon
I've read that some guys think the F4 isn't a good trail braking bike. That hasn't been my experience at all...The bike will stay on the line, not try to stand up or understeer
That is one nice benefit I'll begrudge the /70 over the /65. Alex you should spoon a set of 60's onto the front and see what you think about trail braking I probably have some old H2's around somewhere if you want to give it a go HAHA.

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post #10 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-20-2006, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan Gibbs
Can someone refresh my memory. In the MSF class, did they say when making a slow turn like 5-10 mph (parking lot), you countersteer the bike while remaining upright. Does the body act as a counter balance?
Does counter steering work @ 5mph? I actually turn the bars left to go left at that speed. Gyroscopic precession is so minimal at that speed that counter steering doens't work.

Alex
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