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a scenario we need to be able to deal with

3K views 27 replies 11 participants last post by  Helpdesk 
#1 ·
The bend is tightening up big time. The road surface is wet and greasy ; you're on the apex ready to peel off but you've got the lean wrong for the tightness of the curve..Nowhere to go ? There is a big rig headed towards you .....

What would you do

This can and does happen unexpectedly..for me when I'm relaxed and on an unknown stretch of road..all of a sudden that steady 60mph is fcuking quick and you only have a millisecond to respond......
 
#2 ·
Hhmm

Crikey Joe, you come up with some weird shit.
How do you peel off the apex and get caught out by a corner? If you are on the apex then you see the exit, if not, you are not on the apex, in most cases this is true.
Don't drive around relaxed doing 60mph if you don't know the road or can't see ahead of you.
Or just do what I do, shut my eyes and open it up....:yo:
 
#3 ·
You're right Donsy, but we can all get caught out. I was in Donegal last year in Ireland and was going round a gentle curve with a rock wall on my left...The curve had been long and gentle for half a mile or so and the terrain was like that typically all afternoon...The road suddenly went into a hairpin left...It can happen and to be fair I did what you said

counter pressure, throttle , eyes shut and three Hail Marys !

anyway..You are a track boy and you know stuff I don't so lets hear it !!!
 
#26 ·
was going round a gentle curve with a rock wall on my left...The curve had been long and gentle for half a mile or so and the terrain was like that typically all afternoon...The road suddenly went into a hairpin left...It can happen and to be fair I did what you said
Similar thing happened to me except it was a tight right hander with no signage (all previous corners had signs so i figured it was a fast corner).

I went in waaay to hot and i opted for 'Controlled crashing' whereby applying the front brakes, stand bike up, wipe off as much speed as possible, then JUMP from the bike before it flew off the edge and down 5m into trees.

My father in law said i should have tried to make the corner........ however IMO when you know you are f%cked, if you have an option, choose the one which will hurt less lol.
 
#7 ·
It's just a bit of fun..so thank you Alan...The track boys will roll their eyes but whilst I try not to lose concentration..It can happen..and you need the method in order to get through the situation in one piece.

There will be low hours riders who don't even know what counter steering is or that if you open the throttle the bike will pick up on its suspension..Such a rider will hit the front brake in that instance...exactly the wrong thing to do..

I crave more knowledge on bike handling and safety strategies and I was a bit surprised that we didn't get more input on this thread....however ,,,such is life !

cheers

joe
 
#10 ·
Hhhmm

Joe
It's all good to sit and smile and see who says what, you can't teach people to ride on the internet, you are playing with people's live's. Rider training days and track training days and lotsa time on the road is the only way to learn how to ride these powerful bikes of the 21st century.

People will start blaming tyres for their crashes, when you don't even know if they had the correct tyre pressures and suspension set-up on that brand of tyre.
How many guy's do you know who will tell you if you see a wet patch in the road, best thing to do is keep the gas constant, almost everybody will tell you to shut the gas but don't hit the brakes. Shutting the gas is the same to the tyres as hitting the front brake....watch the comments on this !
One of the best was a 40+ gent on a Z1100 telling us how he uses his back brake for steering and to steady the bike coming out of corners, well done Eddy Lawson !
I was a assistant coach at a race school recently, and when the question was asked, 3 of the 10 guys in the group still used their BACK brake as the primary option. All on GSXR's and CBR's. WTF.

I rode bikes on the road most of my life, but only VERY recently started racing, I do not pretend to know everything, but I do know you are opening a Big Pandora's Box and that is probably why you have not had such a big response to your thread. ; )
Do you realise how many people know what the APEX of a corner is, or a Negative camber corner, or a tyre pressure gauge for that matter.
One fella, bless his good heart, came to a track day and promptly told the other guys that he will be taking it easy as he's got new tyres on, he has only done about a 400km on them and is still scrubbing them in. WTF.
I say this much, ride within your limits and go do some track days, it is well worth it and will teach you what your bike can do, and how much you really know, in a controlled environment, so you don't have to panic, hopefully, when you run across those surprises on the road.
Just my 2 cent's worth:naughty:
 
#11 ·
Thanks Donsy..You're a good bloke and I take on board what you are saying... I agree too on the track day in a controlled environment...and yes ...sometimes a little knowledge can be dangerous.

I have a buddy who is a helicopter pilot and a bike instructor...very clever geezer too. He said that controlling a motorcycle is one of the most complex things for a human to accomplish...

I guess I am always looking for hints and tips..to incorporate and we tend to swap stories back home of scenarios and then strategies to avoid danger...

You are right though on reflection this isn't the best place to get the fine points over...

cheers

joe
 
#12 ·
+10

Thanks Donsy..You're a good bloke and I take on board what you are saying... I agree too on the track day in a controlled environment...and yes ...sometimes a little knowledge can be dangerous.

I have a buddy who is a helicopter pilot and a bike instructor...very clever geezer too. He said that controlling a motorcycle is one of the most complex things for a human to accomplish...

I guess I am always looking for hints and tips..to incorporate and we tend to swap stories back home of scenarios and then strategies to avoid danger...

You are right though on reflection this isn't the best place to get the fine points over...

cheers

joe
No Harm Meant Mate - just passion.
 
#14 ·
Joe, as Donsy says the track is a great environment for learning your own personal limitations and those of your bike.

I have also found that a good way of learning what bikes will do in different circumstances is to go green laneing (off roading to our international brothers and sisters:)). I find that if you get comfortable with a bike moving around on inconsistent surfaces you certainly learn what effect your inputs ie: throttle, steering, weight bias, braking etc will have on the bike.

And as Donsy rightly says a constant, balanced throttle input on wet/greasy surfaces is probably safer than shutting off. Smoothness is the key on the road IMHO. And you are absolutely right that newer riders have to learn about reading the road, sometimes unfortunately the hard way, and i certainly misjudged corners when i started riding. I always try to keep a little 20% or so in reserve just in case i run out of talent mid corner:)

Cheers,

Al
 
#15 ·
Donsy you have a very valid point and interesting to see the way this thread is going now - perhaps my experience of trials riding since 13 followed by 10 yrs of Moto-X and 40 years riding has a bearing on my comments - confidence goes a long way - over confidence is the wrong way (resulted in a broken neck for me :( )
No matter how much we read/talk about riding there is no substitute for actually doing it - the tracks are the place for part of that learning and the road tends to teach you more about others and their riding/driving :)
 
#16 ·
Yes Donsy is experienced and informed, It is interesting too that the consensus is to get out on the track and learn technique in the right environment from those that know and furthermore are qualified to teach...

I have a fair amount of road experience..zero track...So I am certainly not qualified to advise and teach..In floating this across the forum I was inviting ( innocently ) advice from all levels of experience which could be taken on board by those with either very low levels of experience or the wrong mindset to evaluate and balance the suggestions made..

Teaching is a matter of laminating knowledge inch by inch and not yard by yard..

cheers

joe
 
#17 ·
Go to the track Joe,:stickpoke even if you don't take your F4. However much road experience you have, it's always a revelation when you take a bike out on a track circuit. I recall riding around Cadwell on a FZR400 back in the nineties on slicks, bearing in mind I used to proddy race back in the 70's. It was such a hoot and I should get my arse back there with the F4 if/when finances allow.
 
#21 ·
Yes Abs would have saved me when i had my crash a few weeks ago.Car 3 cars in front decided to turn last second.Cars bunched up,i was going too fast. Hit the brakes,they lock up quickly release brakes.Running at of space,either hit the car in front or pull to the side of the road dirt.Hit the side as i hit the dirt bike digs in and drops sideways.I have no doubt if i had Abs my little accident would never have happened
 
#22 ·
Hi Joe,
The "one fits all" answer to a bad situation on the road is "don´t panic"
Easier said than done I know as we all react differently, but practice will improve everyone, and just one track day and you will be a much better rider. With or without instruction.
Learn the theory and then practice.
How riding affect us when we are riding is a complex subject. I have copies of scientific studies that explore the powerful, surprising, changes that happen to us when we ride. None bad however.
"Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenence" is just the beggining.
Frank:smoking:
 
#23 ·
Cheers Frank..Riding is definitely good for my inner peace and my back too !

I've got no desire to be the fastest in the village..I just want to enjoy my bikes..From a handling aspect ; I like a spirited ride but not so much that I'd be annoying drivers...It's good to have a few tricks up your sleeve..a bit in reserve you might say.

The physiological effects of going into a "fright" mode aren't conducive to the need for fine motor skills involved in handling a motorcycle...
 
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