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Ethanol and plastic tanks on MVAGUSTA

7K views 35 replies 16 participants last post by  esq'z me 
#1 · (Edited)
wondering if anyone has had the problem of expanding gas tanks using ethanol enriched gas?

basically do the brutales and the f-4 use the type of gas tanks that are plastic covered by a plastic outer aesthetic skin? or are they completely metal?

basically with the new ducati and other brands the plastic tanks are reacting to the ethanol in gas in the US.

the tanks deform and expand from absorbing the water from the ethanol that it absorbs from the air. basically people have bee reporting this happens in as little as 6 months but usually within 1-2 years of purchase.

has this happened with anyone here?

are the new brutales plastic or metal tanks?
 
#4 ·
Brutale's have plastic tanks, but i have not heard of any damage or collapsing.

Easy fix is to use premium fuels instead of cheaper options as these are the ones with higher ethanol additive
The ethanol percentage is irrespective of octane rating, though it does vary by county and/or season--Check the labels on your local pumps.

FYI, the US is planning to allow up to 15% ethanol for '09 vehicles and up, so watch what you're putting in your tank because this WILL destroy engines not ready for it.

Let's all burn our food, that's the way to save the world.
 
#6 · (Edited)
but there is no guarantee that even 93 or 95 pump gas will be ethanol free in the United States, none at all.

and ethanol free gas is damn near impossible to find anymore.

talked to one dealer and they said they are offering a service to coat the inside of the tanks that avoids the tank from absorbing the water and that it has been working for a couple of years, but no long term (obviously) assessment is done yet.

if mv has only started doing plastic tanks they may or may not start to crop up after some time in the next year or so.
 
#5 ·
Does anyone still supply non ethanol gas? Damned if I can find it.

If you think ethanol is trouble for plastic tanks be thankful you don't own an older Bertram boat. The fuel tanks are a moulded part of the hull, can't be replaced and the ethanol is dissolving the resin.

This entire ethanol business is a major bunch of bullshit. Using corn for fuel ends up costing us more in the long run when you tally your grocery bills now vs pre ethanol. Bunch of crap if you ask me.
 
#7 ·
There's also no environmental benefit--Adding up the total carbon output for each process, and dino-oil is actually cleaner than corn-derived.
Add to that the fact the UN world food program has had to reduce their rations by 50% directly related to plant-based fuel consumption and it becomes purely unconscionable, deplorable behavior to even consider perpetuating this massive lie and enormous drain on the US economy.
 
#8 ·
i see that this might turn into a political arugment for and against ethanol. that wasn't the point

the fact is that in the US non ethanol gas is extremely hard to find unelss you are willing to pay a massive premium for "race fuel" which for some of us is not economically feasible for everyday or even weekend riding.

and yes the US is considering allowing up to 15% in gas to be ethanol thus compounding the problem for regular gas engines not designed for ethanol (read anything that is not a flex fuel vehicle)

its not a matter of buying expensive or cheap gas, its a matter of hopefully the mv tanks are not made of a plastic that is effected by the ethanol or not.

has anyone run into any problems with the lines int eh tanks being destroyed by the ethanol or the tank expansion issue?

that is what i'm more curious about, not so much the political banter about "green tech" or whatever, that is another thread.
 
#9 ·
OK, guys...here ya go.....find your station at this site:

http://pure-gas.org/

And, yes, ethanol reduces power, so you get fewer miles per gallon...yep, that's what I call environmentally smart.

The marine industry is really up in arms over the E15 madness....

I also recommend this stuff:

http://mystarbrite.com/startron/
 
#28 ·
#10 ·
just what i thought nothing even remotely around me for hundreds of miles.

and the additive is great if you don't ride much or if you store your bike over the winter,but obviously its very cost prohibitive especially with mv's getting basically terrible gas mileage.
 
#11 ·
Actually...the StarTron is added in very small amounts and improves running performance. It is not just a stabilizer for storage. Very inexpensive in reality.

Developed for the marine industry when the appearance of E10 gas started causing massive engine failures.

I run it in all my bikes. I will swear the fuel mileage has improved.
 
#13 ·
Actually...the StarTron is added in very small amounts and improves running performance. It is not just a stabilizer for storage. Very inexpensive in reality.

Developed for the marine industry when the appearance of E10 gas started causing massive engine failures.

I run it in all my bikes. I will swear the fuel mileage has improved.
i understand that it may not be a lot to add each time, but if you use the bike for thousands of miles a year, adding an additive on each fuel up is not only a pain but will add to the cost that shouldn't be there.
 
#12 ·
I thought the appearance of the E10 gas was due to politicians paving there way through the Iowa caucuses.
 
#15 ·
I recently was on a ride and saw the normal low grade gas with ethanol, but the high octane gas was specifically referred to as "recreational fuel" and noted that it was ethanol free. It was at a "Kwik Trip" gas station in Wisconsin, but when I subsequently went to another Kwik Trip they didn't have the same note there on the high octane stuff. I haven't had a problem with the MV, but I also ride vintage bikes and am always looking for ethanol free stations. That puregas website is great and I am going to send it to all of my friends and have them add any stations they know of. Thanks!
 
#21 ·
i'm actually surprised that more people having been hearing about gas tank problmes with the ethanol in the USA so far, the ducati tanks are deforming bad over a couple of years if not a couple of months in some instances.

is the brutale tank made of one of those tanks inside of a tank situations where the gas tank is actually covered by the decorative outer covering? like they do with the bmw k1200 series

or is the plastic tank of the brutale actually painted on the outside and that forms the outer you see much like the ducati monster tanks before the redesign with the coverings on the outside.?
 
#23 ·
I'm hopeful ethanol's days as a fuel additive are numbered:

Has the federal government’s appetite for ethanol ended? A bipartisan group of Senators signed a letter today calling for an end to subsidies and tariffs designed to protect and enhance domestic production of ethanol, which has been until recently the darling of the alternative-energy movement. In a sign of how far ethanol subsidies have fallen from favor, the letter addressed to both Harry Reid and Mitch McConnell has the signatures of such liberal luminaries as Barbara Boxer, Dianne Feinstein, and the newly-elected Chris *****:

The letter makes clear just how much the government has intervened to coddle ethanol production:

Historically, our government has helped a product compete in one of three ways: subsidize it, protect it from competition, or require its use. We understand that ethanol may be the only product receiving all three forms of support from the US government at this time.
 
#24 ·
Before everyone jumps on the ethanol bashing wagon, have you all taken into consideration we are already past peak oil?

The world is in a global depression yet we have US$86/barrel oil cost.

Depletion is 4%/yr. That is 4% of cheap oil which will be replaced by more expensive oil methods sending the price higher.

The era of cheap oil is dead. So if not ethnanol, what will we use? Natural Gas? BTW i don't know the answer to this question so i'm hoping someone else can enlighten me on alternatives because we certainly won't be using oil!
 
#26 ·
i don't think that ethanol is dead,

i think the auto and bike manufacturers just should start making everythin ethanol compatible if possible,

i dont see the US (and i live here) just up and saying 1 day, "ethanol is gone no more in gas", there are just too many big businesses that want ethanol in fuel to just up and lose all that money they are getting from selling it to the fuel manufacturers.

we can complain a lot but honestly our voices aren't the ones that matter, its the corn producers and oil companies that say what goes in the long run.

i just hope that if i get a 1090rr that it won't have tank problems like the ducatis are having. there are no pure fuel places in my entire state. going without ethanol that is just not a feasible option since its not available here in the states, and yes i already looked on that one site for pure gas, nothing near me at all..
 
#27 ·
No bashing of ethanol....just facts....:
It takes more energy per gallon to produce ethanol then it saves in energy production.
Moving to an ethanol fuel basis is diverting food crops to an alternate use that has little if any environmental benefit (creating a whole other set of issues).
Ethanol is not a viable energy source for current internal combustion engine designs (ready to give up your motorcycles as you know them today?).

I have found another product to counter the ill affects of ethanol....this one sworn to by the marine and bike guys on the gulf coast (can you say high humidity and very rapid E10 gas deterioration?):

http://www.primrose.com/content/view/156/31/

I will get some and try it as soon as possible.
 
#29 ·
Esq - If i understand you correctly, your view against ethanol is not one of cost but of morals - ie food used for fuel.

I'm a noob when it comes to this ethanol stuff, but my question is, why does it matter if we burn organic matter?

The US Govt probably gets a hard on for it because it means you can produce their own land. Therefore it creates jobs,'gives protection against inflation from a falling currency because it's not
Imported and stimulates the economy.

I don't quite get the food argument. Even if you grew food instead of sugar you wouldn't give it away so what does it matter? You aren't going to run out of food.
 
#30 ·
I think it is because of the subsidies, it is more profitable for farmers to grow corn here and sell it to manufacturers to make ethanol than it is to make grain. Since demand for corn based products has not slackened, and the supply has diminished prices of everything else corn based have risen.

I think my last paragraph summed it up nicely. That stuff is heavily subsidized and without those subsidies there would be very little ethanol.
 
#32 ·
Ehtanol was mandated and subsidized long before the $ began to weaken so I don't think that has anything to do with it. Most of our food is grown here as well. If the supply of grain went to farm animals and grain products, thereby keeping a lid on food prices, that would not affect our trade deficit. Lastly, when was the last time America ran a trade surplus? (1975)

The affect of ethanol production on the $ or the trade deficit had nothing to do with the decision to subsidize it, and mandate it's use. Ethanol use here in the US has been widely mandated since 1992.
 
#33 ·
CAG - Those are just flow on effects that Erik and i have mentioned and it would be an economic decision.

This is how i look at it, mind you it's a very brief rough look.

The US consumes 20B barrels of oil each day. Of that i think (i could be wrong here) 12B barrels are imported.

Oil per barrel is US$86 so that is US$1.7B/day total and US$1B imported.

On a yearly level that equates to US$628B/yr total usage of which US$365B is imported.

If you dilute your total oil consumption by 10% that means you are reducing your reliance on oil by 2B barrels a day or in dollar terms US$63B per year.

The Ethanol subsidy is $7B/yr or thereabouts so you improve the trade balance by US$63B/yr --> US$56B net. I don't know all the tax numbers so i can't work out what they lose/gain on taxation revenue but i doubt they even considered that aspect.

This is all used as stimulus stuff for the economy. You increase your GDP, you create employment opportunities and more money stays in your economy to in turn, stimulate it again.

In regards to food prices increasing because of ethanol, i doubt it has much, if any impact. I would put that thought at the back of your mind and think about the effect the USD dropping 30% of it's value has had on the cost of food. That's where your problem lies right now, not in allocation of land designated to fuel over food.
 
#34 ·
Well..... Nice complicating read about fuel/gas, but back to the original question..... Yes my tank is showing signs of this (2010 F4). Haha.
Small bubbling appearance on the top of the tank, they tell me it's due to this problem.
Only fuel I ever put in is shell V-power and BP Ultimate (UK) so it shouldn't be doing it really.
They say I can get a new tank, but isn't bad yet so I'll watch it for now.
 
#35 · (Edited)
Can someone take a look at the 2010 or any brutale or f4 plastic tank on the bottom and take a picture of it, you are looking for something on it that tells what type of plastic the tank is made of.

see if you can find either the 3rd part manufacturer say "acerbis" on the bottom or if there are the letters "PA" inside of what looks like a recycle triangle made of 3 arrows.

those are the markings on teh ducati tanks that have problems in the USA, now if there is an XLPE stamped on the bottom somewhere then it might not be suseptible to the tank expansion since that plastic doesn't react with water.

and post up here if you can thanks. just curious. and what country you are in, as the xlpe seems to be only outside the US but who knows.
 
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